Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Palagonia double homicide


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep.  Sandstein  17:58, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Palagonia double homicide

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newspaper. red dogsix (talk) 20:13, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep: Wealth of coverage. This is not an ordinary crime because there are reprisals, and reactions from the country's legislators. Many American crimes get similar coverage and get articles. Just because most of this coverage is in Italian does not negate that it is well covered. It is also being covered in top-bracket English-language sources including Yahoo, Telegraph, Guardian, and Reuters. &#39;&#39;&#39;tAD&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 20:18, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Addition: I found Spanish-language sources which say about politicians wanting the migrant centre in question to be shut down. While this is expected reaction from politicians in nationwide populist parties who have no connection to the area, it's also being said by the town's mayor. There is nationwide political influence in this crime because blame (rightly or wrongly, I'm not here to judge) is being put on the government, who have explicitly reacted. Then there's the local influence that there is now unrest in the town and the camp has been ordered by the mayor to close. But that local story also becomes an international story because of the range of refugees from across the globe staying there. &#39;&#39;&#39;tAD&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 06:18, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Note The above comment are from the article creator. By the way, the Google News link you misleadingly posted contains stories relating to all news about Palagonia, not just about this crime... AusLondonder (talk) 05:17, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep - It appears that the event has picked up a strong socio-political dimension that's pretty notable, and that's the kind of thing that establishes a legacy for such events beyond mere bits of news. As stated above, a lot of the coverage is in Italian and may be easy to miss at first for English language editors as well. CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 23:17, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Italy-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:03, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:03, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:03, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

I don't know what you are suggesting by remarking on the similar timing of the nominations. I assume you are simply engaging in more smearing without evidence. There is no doubt that the Greek rape was only given an article because the criminal was an immigrant and a Muslim. AusLondonder (talk) 05:35, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep as per User:CoffeeWithMarkets.  Note that this incident is one in a recent series of articles in which crimes that happen to be committed by recent immigrants inflame an anti-immigration response, see: 2012 Paros (Greece) rape, 2015 Ikea murders and Shooting of Kathryn Steinle.E.M.Gregory (talk) 18:27, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Funny how the Paros case was also nominated for deletion around the same time, with the rationale starting with it apparently failing WP:GNG, and then turning into a rant saying that the article only existed because the rapist was Muslim, put his status as an illegal immigrant in scaremarks (convicted rapists are illegal, full stop). There was also a strawman/other stuff argument to write an article about every single rape in England, because this one by a Pakistani received another media attention for an article which most by anyone doesn't get. Somebody has an axe to grind. It's like asking for an article on every single person shot by law enforcement just because some get more media attention than others, or an article on every child who drowned because one now has an article due to media coverage. Wikipedia is not here to right great wrongs &#39;&#39;&#39;tAD&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 23:24, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete WP:NOTNEWS. Did not generate lasting coverage. Another abusive attack by User:The Almightey Drill, this time behind by back, in total violation of WP:NPA. Quotation marks are not "scaremarks". No one has an axe to grind, so take off your tin foil hat. This is about basic editorial standards. Given you are the creator of this article and defender of others, maybe you have an axe to grind. I am considering referring you to ANI over suggesting yet again that editors are engaged in bad faith defence of rapists. AusLondonder (talk) 05:14, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment The editor above who suggests other editors have an "axe to grind" has a record of creating articles about Islam and immigration related controversies, some now deleted. No editor has more of an axe to grind than The Almightey Drill. Apart from creating weird article about, for example Clown porn the editor has created the following:
 * Muhammad Sex Simulator 2015
 * and its incredibly negative reception &#39;&#39;&#39;tAD&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 07:10, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Joshua Bonehill-Paine (failed far-right candidate)
 * He is and I wrote why &#39;&#39;&#39;tAD&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 07:10, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Killing of Palmira Silva (murderer *happened* to be Nigerian born, very little lasting coverage)
 * See below for how fucking stupid you are about this &#39;&#39;&#39;tAD&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 07:10, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Alvin Tan (blogger) (anti-Islam blogger)
 * I wrote how much he is thought of as a moron by his peers &#39;&#39;&#39;tAD&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 07:10, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
 * 2014 Dijon attack
 * It happened, I wrote of it neutrally &#39;&#39;&#39;tAD&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 07:10, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
 * 2014 Endeavour Hills stabbings
 * 2014 Australian counter-terrorism raids
 * Ditto &#39;&#39;&#39;tAD&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 07:10, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
 * United Kingdom and ISIL
 * Every man and his dog has written about ISIL, does this article have an agenda? &#39;&#39;&#39;tAD&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 07:10, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
 * National Action (UK) (neo-Nazi protest group)
 * I wrote of their opposition and failure &#39;&#39;&#39;tAD&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 07:10, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Roman Party (incredibly obscure right-wing party)
 * LOLOLOLOLOLOL EVERYONE IS RIGHT-WING!!!!!!!!! &#39;&#39;&#39;tAD&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 07:10, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Roman Party is not right wing. The Silva murder shut off a part of London and made headlines. Silva herself was born abroad and the article refutes the Sun's theory that it was an Islamist attack. My articles are neutrally written, writing about topics does not equal endorsement. Most are resoundingly about criticism of right-wing figures and groups. So jog on. &#39;&#39;&#39;tAD&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 06:34, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Your guilt by association accusation is not exactly that well thought out. Please tell me how creating an article on a bloke in Reading who likes Romans or the accurate account of a (white) criminal from Yeovil is having an axe to grind. Anti-paranoia medication may be available &#39;&#39;&#39;tAD&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 06:53, 5 September 2015 (UTC)


 * The Greek rape received attention because the criminal was just that, which put their fascist party into action. Just because such inequalities in news coverage happens, doesn't mean it has to be ignored &#39;&#39;&#39;tAD&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 06:46, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Do not edit my comments. You have no idea about how Wikipedia works, do you? "The Silva murder shut off a part of London and made headlines" - WP:NOTNEWS. You have written an extraordinary level of articles relating to Islam and immigration related controversies, often POV Pushing. The Roman Party is remarkably obscure and also right-wing "send teenage parents back to school" and "when in Rome, do as the Romans". Don't forget you started this by accusing me of defending a rapist, having an axe to grind and suggested badfaith motives. I therefore find it remarkable you would recommended "anti-paranoia medication" for me! You jog on sad (personal attack removed).. AusLondonder (talk) 08:27, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I responded to your posts, not edited them, you &#39;&#39;&#39;tAD&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 10:20, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I have written an even more remarkable amount of stuff on other subjects, and you still haven't pointed out any example of me writing a biased article on immigrants, nor has anybody else ever tagged one as such. Do you endorse everything you write about? What agenda was I pushing on the Roman Party, to begin with – a French eccentric who has entered elections, hardly someone MI5 has their tabs on. I'm not even sure if you're trolling with some of this logic and contrarian remarks: you said I was editing pro-Bonehill, I said I made the article an accurate reflection of how the majority of sources are on his political failures and criminal history. Then you called me awful and BIASED AGAINST HIM. You can't make your mind up, you just want to be like a yappy little Yorkshire terrier winding me up. Well, politics means absolutely jack shit to me, especially if my neutrally written articles get this kind of ludicrous reception from random nobodies, so take me to ANI and I'll gladly get a topic ban on ALL politics, ALL religion and avoid ever coming across you again! I'll fucking love it m8. &#39;&#39;&#39;tAD&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 20:05, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Do you take the WP:NOTNEWS argument to all other crimes which end up on this website? Where do you draw the line between "news" and "event"? Amount of coverage? Length of coverage? Amount of factors of discussion? Or "I don't like it" &#39;&#39;&#39;tAD&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 20:08, 5 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Strong keep: The crime has received major coverage, of which a good portion in English from major newspapers. The event is in nearly all cases reported as part of the broader issue of immigration to Italy (WP:NOTNEWS), which is arguably the biggest source of concern in the country right now, likely to even decide the next election. The article is neutrally written (I was expecting the worst) and the sources reliable, it might be helpful to add a few reliable liberal-leaning sources as well (the Guardian, BBC news...) for balance but even at this time it answers notability and neutrality requirements. --ArmstrongJulian (talk) 08:51, 5 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep: I known, this is an awkward article for pro-immigrants, however this event meets the criteria of Notability. --Norden1990 (talk) 10:22, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't think the esteemed gentleman is pro-immigrant, just a control freak. He deleted my responses to his false accusations and has accused me of bias that nobody else has seen in 45k edits. I write neutrally, is he saying everyone who ever wrote about x supports x? Fkn mental m8 &#39;&#39;&#39;tAD&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 10:26, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
 * You accused me of bias first, bad faith and effectively supporting rapists. Truly disgusting lies. If you keep up this shameful abuse, such as "anal retentive sack of shit" I will take this to ANI. AusLondonder (talk) 10:50, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
 * After you swore at me...you really are an odd one. And tell me how creating an article equals endorsing it. I'd keep an eye on whoever edits the holocaust in that case. Funny bloke &#39;&#39;&#39;tAD&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 14:57, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
 * You swore at me first. Unbelievable level of hypocrisy. AusLondonder (talk) 15:47, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Lol nope. And why did you remove my responses? I didn't edit what you wrote, I signed my own work. You are living ina bubble of victimhood, snap out of it. No wonder you want a bit of authority, you strike me as someone who got a fair bit of flak at school, to put it lightly &#39;&#39;&#39;tAD&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 16:09, 5 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment – A reminder to please limit the discussion to the topic itself, and to comment upon content, rather than contributors. North America1000 07:21, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep. This is more than just a passing news story.  The first reference alone, the Telegraph article, describes a political impact of sufficient significance to warrant a Wikipedia article.  Edgeweyes (talk) 11:08, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: I have added even more sources (in Italian) that the migrants apart from the criminal himself found this attack appalling, and that the locals felt that Italy's furthest right party was exploiting a tragedy. Seriously, anybody who feels this article was written with bias fails WP:COMPETENCE and I'm not sure if people of such judgement should be allowed outside unaccompanied. &#39;&#39;&#39;tAD&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 18:41, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Another pathetic attack in violation of WP:NPA. I didn't say this particular article was biased, nor did I say a large number were. I meant you have a pattern of writing about Islam and immigration related controversies of borderline notability, such as Muhammad Sex Simulator 2015 AusLondonder (talk) 08:54, 7 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep Meets notability. Wide range of good reliable sources and news coverage. AlbinoFerret  19:02, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Move to Wikinews per WP:NOTNEWS, until sustained coverage demonstrates notability (which is different from newsworthiness). Incident is less than a week old.  Mini  apolis  22:30, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment - If there's an ongoing personal war going on between contributors, then can some administrators or something seriously take that to another place where it can be hashed out? We're still in the midst of a reasonable discussion on if the article should be kept or not. CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 00:07, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Response - I will voluntarily withdraw from all subject areas where I am likely to encounter said editor. It is a small amount of my Wiki interests. &#39;&#39;&#39;tAD&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 00:17, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment I have ceased replying to the nasty and vicious personal attacks in-kind but I would welcome the conduct of the other editor being raised at ANI. Totally unprompted, the editor began attacking my character and accusing me of bad faith and having an unspecified 'agenda'. The vile personal attacks such as "anal retentive sack of shit" and "you strike me as someone who got a fair bit of flak at school" are just childish and juvenile insults you would expect from a teenager. For an editor to manage to get this angry about deletion nominations is a serious concern AusLondonder (talk) 08:54, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep The crime has received major coverage and passes. WP: N. ~ EDDY  ( talk / contribs )~ 14:32, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep as appears to meet GNG through its coverage. Rubbish computer 19:51, 8 September 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.