Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Panchanan Chakraborty


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. A number of leads to sources have opened up during this nomination, and the article creator may yet respond to their ping. If it turns out there's not enough to properly source the article improve we can go again with another AfD. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 08:39, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

Panchanan Chakraborty

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Article is based on two offline sources: one of which was written by the subject and the other by Pabitrakumar Gupta which I can not even find evidence of its existence ( a google search yielded no further information with no hits in libraries, publishers, etc.) With no publisher given, it's not clear that this offline source is even a reliable published resource. A WP:BEFORE search yielded many sources about a different person, the economist and economics professor Panchanan Chakraborty, but nothing about the revolutionary. Fails WP:SIGCOV. 4meter4 (talk) 03:04, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Curbon7 (talk) 04:37, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. Curbon7 (talk) 04:37, 31 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Lean delete: Do note that just because a source is offline or you do not have access to it does not necessarily make it unusable as a source. That being said, the nominator is correct that the one source written by the author is unusable, and the second can't be found. A somewhat thorough search in both English and Bengali returned very little; there are some passing mentions under his alternative name (searches using the article title are clouded as there is a modern professor with the same name), but nothing substantial as far as I can find. This is all in addition to the fact that the article seems to be written in the form of more caste war nonsense. I'm opting to put lean delete because sources may exist, but my best effort turned up zilch. Curbon7 (talk) 04:50, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment, I found some sources which mention him but none that discuss him in any depth; i.e, Ray 1979 (p. 612) mentions him as the leader of revolt groups in Faridpur, Ray 1980 (p. 460) mentions him as an example of inaccuracies in Intelligence Reports where he was represented as the leader of a revolt group in Madaripur, Chattopadhyay 1984 (p. 73) is about Santosh Kumari Devi (note for me to create a page on her) and cites his testimony as a primary source, Hasan 2016 mentions him as an example of flogging by colonial authorities, Dhar 2009 (non academic memoir) mentions him as a "legendary name" associated with the Forward Bloc.


 * All in, this confirms that he as a person existed, was at least a mid level figure in revolutionary groups and was (is?) fairly well known in Bengal, but the sourcing as far as I could find is just name dropping here and there. There also appears to be multiple other people with the same name including his contemporaries which makes finding sources much more difficult. I can't read Bengali and google translation is too poor with Indian language especially for this kind of focused searches, so it's also quite possible that other Bengali language sources exist as well. Pinging and  who may be better able than me at finding sources in this topic area and for confirming whether ref 2 in the article is usable.  Tayi Arajakate  Talk 02:33, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep kudos to for doing the legwork here.  Clearly there's a variety of English transliterations of his name. I had attempted some searching a little earlier and got as far as one of the Ray articles, but RL intervened.  There's also a mention of him (p.79) as an influence upon Prafulla Das, the Oria writer who spent his childhood in Calcutta.   My Bangla is not strong enough to do the detailed textual reading (rather than searching) necessary, but given the presence of multiple mentions with regard to his actions within the Bengali elements of the Freedom Movement around Chandra Bose, this is very much a case of it being more than reasonable to assume offline sources exist. For example: Bangla text searching turns up this: "এই বিক্ষুব্ধ গােষ্ঠীর অন্যতম প্রধান নায়ক ছিলেন পঞ্চানন চক্রবর্তী" ( "One of the main heroes of this rebellious group was Panchanan Chakraborty") from bn:Arabinda Poddara's বাংলার অগ্নিযুগ সূর্যোদয় ও সূর্যাস্তের দিনগুলি (1997)  . I've left a notification on the article author's page; FWIW, they seem an editor who had an unfrivolous focus in this subject area. Regards, --Goldsztajn (talk) 01:19, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 04:54, 7 September 2021 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep, per Goldsztajn, the mentions indicate notability as a historical figure and AGF with respect to ref 2 provided by article's author. Tayi Arajakate  Talk 14:19, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep, is notable as a historical figure, although online references are very sparse.Jackattack1597 (talk) 22:11, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment. The sources provided by Goldsztajn are brief mentions of the subject and don't contain in-depth coverage of Panchanan Chakraborty. While these sources do make claims about the subject that would seem to indicate some notability, they don't count as RS per the purposes of WP:GNG. GNG states that "Significant coverage" addresses the topic directly and in detail which these sources don't. Additionally, the article is entirely based upon material written by the subject and a text that we have no publishing information about. We have no way of knowing if the Pabitrakumar Gupta text is self published, or is an essay, or a book, or to what extent the source is independent or reliable. I really don't see how the keep votes can be justified or supported by wikipedia's notability policies in the face of the lack of significant coverage in RS.4meter4 (talk) 15:20, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete, per nom, for failing WP:GNG. 4meter4 rightfully points out that "mentions" do not count for notability. Ifnord (talk) 18:54, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 10:12, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete: as per nomination. I agree with what 4meter4 has already pointed out.defcon5 (talk) 14:21, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep Clearly a historical figure. This is the English language encyclopedia of the entire world, not the encylopedia of the English language speaking world. References to sources in languages other than English are entirely acceptable to establish notability, although English sources are preferable when readily available to choose from. A topic covered in reliable, independent sources in Hindi languages is notable for inclusion in the English Wikipedia even if English sources on the topic are lacking. VocalIndia (talk) 17:48, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
 * , what sources in Hindi????? As far as I can see, there aren't any that provide WP:SIGCOV (assuming good faith for the offline source, of course). Curbon7 (talk) 18:11, 22 September 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.