Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Papatoetoe Seventh-day Adventist Community church


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   merge to Papatoetoe. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone  01:07, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Papatoetoe Seventh-day Adventist Community church

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Article on single congregation, which fails to assert notability., => fails WP:CHURCH. No independent sourcing. dramatic (talk) 09:30, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of New Zealand-related deletion discussions.
 * I especially enjoy it when churches are fail notability since I am anathema to them! so delete itTroyster87 (talk) 09:40, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: The above editor is a now-banned sockpuppet of an oft-banned editor. - Dravecky (talk) 03:56, 12 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Merge to Papatoetoe, fails WP:N for own article, see only a trivial mention at NZ Herald . XLerate (talk) 11:12, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Merge to Papatoetoe per WP:LOCAL for articles on local subjects that are notable in a local sphere but cannot pass WP:N in their own right. -Senseless!... says you, says me 12:39, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Merge to Papatoetoe per above arguments. No indication that this more than an average local church.- gadfium 18:43, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment: On what independent, non-trivial source do the above three users base the suggestion to merge? We add non-notable schools to suburb articles because we have good sourcing. Also, I suspect that user hoped to create articles for every redlink in List of Adventist churches in New Zealand, and it would be wrong to set an example that might lead to every equivalent suburb article having an unsourced advertisement for the SDA while having nothing on the half-dozen or more other churches that most suburbs have in them. A suburb article is not a repository for random unsourced information (I've seen people enumerating the shops in a shopping centre). It should mention a church if that church plays a notable role in the community or is of national significance. For example, you couldn't write about Temple View without mentioning the LDS church (since the suburb is mor or less 100% LDS members), and the article on Parnell ought to mention the Anglican cathedral. dramatic (talk) 20:41, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment, per WP:CHURCH same guideline used to nominate for deletion. For Dunedin I see an average 1.47 churches per suburb, but whitepages has 23 listings for Papatoetoe, which I don't think ought to all be included per WP:NOTDIR. If DZadventiste wants to add churches to suburbs then please cover all denominations. XLerate (talk) 23:19, 9 March 2009 (UTC)


 * If someone had added a few sentences about this church, with the existing sources, to Papatoetoe, would you remove it? I wouldn't, since the sources are sufficient to indicate that the church exists, and although the attendance figures are not from an independent source, I have no reason to doubt them.
 * Having 23 churches in Papatoetoe does make me pause. However, this church article is only two paragraphs and a photo. I think the second paragraph could be dropped as non-notable, and the suggestion that its one of the largest Adventist congregations in NZ removed as unsourced, leaving three sentences. If we merged it into Papatoetoe, then there is a reasonable chances that paragraphs would be written about some of the other churches, and this is rather a good model for such paragraphs, being phrased in factual and neutral language.
 * The Papatoetoe article gives a population of nearly 40,000, but I suspect that's including surrounding suburbs which most people would not consider part of Papatoetoe. At some point I'll try to reconcile the figure in the article with the figures for Manukau City in . The census divides the area up into Papatoetoe North, Papatoetoe Central, Puhinui and several others, and it may be appropriate to divide the article into several article on smaller localities as well. I've been doing this for other suburbs as I've added school information to them.- gadfium 03:15, 10 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Merge to Papatoetoe. Pastor Theo (talk) 00:16, 10 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.