Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Paraguay – South Africa relations


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. I was going to close this as no consensus, but upon further evaluation, I've determined that the keep "votes" don't really address the core of the nominator's concerns (as well as those raised by the editors in favor of deletion). "It's notable" or "There is coverage" are generally weak arguments without much evidence. Again, a very borderline case, but this decision is within admin discretion I think. – Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 05:33, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Paraguay – South Africa relations

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another random combination, noting that South Africa decided to close its embassy in Paraguay over a decade ago. Lack of coverage of actual bilateral relations, mostly multilateral and football. . the two countries played a football match in the 2002 World Cup. this result is adequately covered in 2002 World Cup but I know of at least 1 editor who would think this is worthy of inclusion for advancing relations between nation states. clearly not. LibStar (talk) 01:37, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete and handle via the Foreign Relations of X convention. JJL (talk) 02:22, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete for lack of actually notable facets of a relationship. Niteshift36 (talk) 04:46, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Weak Delete for now. There might actually be something here, as it appears that Paraguay flouted embargoes against apartheid era South Africa. This thesis actually does cover the topic these countries relations directly and in depth, though--as I recall--there is no consensus on whether theses constitute reliable sources, since they are not published in the same sense that a book or newspaper or magazine article is published. (Perhaps someone can update me on how or whether this debate was resolved.) A targeted google books search also brings up a few direct hits, though these appear to be passing mentions, and not detailed coverage. So at this point, I gotta say 'weak delete', but if someone can demonstrate that these sources (or others that may have eluded my) constitute direct, detailed coverage, I'll change to keep. Yilloslime T C  05:17, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Didn't pretty much 3/4 of the civilized world have embargoes against SA over apartheid? That seems more like "one of the crowd" than notable to me. Niteshift36 (talk) 16:43, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * My point was the opposite--Paraguay was apparently one the few countries that didn't respect those embargoes. So their relationship w/ SA may be somewhat atypical, vis-a-vis SA's relations with other countries. But at present, I'm still not convinced that this constitutes a notable relationship. Yilloslime T C  17:10, 14 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions.  —Cdogsimmons (talk) 20:59, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It's easy for a country to disregard a sort of general embargo against another country if they don't really have any relations anyway. Drawn Some (talk) 23:21, 14 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete I was on the fence about this one. It would seem to be significant that South Africa abandoned its diplomatic mission to Paraguay until I realized that it was abandoned because there was nothing of substance to worry with.  The topic of relations between Paraguay & South Africa seems to be non-notable per WP:NOTE.  If anyone has sources dealing with that topic please share. Drawn Some (talk) 23:21, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of South Africa-related deletion discussions.  -- TexasAndroid (talk) 11:48, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Paraguay-related deletion discussions.  -- TexasAndroid (talk) 11:48, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep As the article notes, Paraguay's fascist dictator, Alfredo Stroessner, was one of the few world leaders who would make a state visit to apartheid-era South Africa, and Paraguay received financial aid as a result in the form of a $20 million loan. Notable back in the 1970s, and notability doesn't expire.  Mandsford (talk) 12:35, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete No coverage of the topic as a whole through secondary sources. -- Blue Squadron  Raven  21:33, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep There does not need to be coverage of the topic "as a whole" there just needs to be coverage of the topic--and there is. The political implication of the relationship need some development, as Mandsford suggested--there will probably be a good deal of additional material Meetings between chiefs of state or government can sometime be major political matters, as here. DGG (talk) 05:12, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete The link between a former dictator of Paraguay and the apartheid-era South Africa is potentially interesting, but that is not related to relations between the two countries, and would be more properly covered in Alfredo Stroessner since I don't see any statement that either Paraguay or South Africa got much out the visits. The links listed above by Yilloslime are interesting, but to me they are more about the observation that the apartheid-era South Africa sought allies among the dictatorships in the South American countries; that point belongs in the history of South Africa. The article refs are extremely mundane, and do not come close to even asserting notability. Fails WP:GNG. Johnuniq (talk) 12:11, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep per Mandsford. Alefbe (talk) 13:25, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Dunno D4 obviously. K2 but not very strong. If there was a K4 that would decide it. Marginal. I think Foreign relations of Paraguay has most of the content. If not, someone should copy it across, just in case. Aymatth2 (talk) 02:47, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.