Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Parks on the Air


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Unfortunately, quite apart from the SPA nature of some of them, none of the Keep votes actual advance policy-based reasons why the article meets our notability (and promotional) guidelines. Black Kite (talk) 11:19, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Parks on the Air

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Essentially a promotional web page for the event and the organization--and furthermore insufficient evidence of notability, There are no  references with substantial coverage from third-party independent reliable sources--everything is from themselves, or is a mere  press releases or announcement. Earlier version, such as or  contain further lists of announcements. Normally I'd draftify, but this has already been rejected twice in Draft space, before the contributor decided to try it directly in mainspace.  DGG ( talk ) 04:06, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions.  DGG ( talk ) 04:06, 29 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep This is a article which only references it's own website on the list of references twice. Additionally, admin User:TomCat4680 has already reviewed the article and approved it without marking it for deletion. Furthermore, I've made additional improvements/changes to the article removing all links as recommended in the draft to any reference to blogs, facebook, and youtube videos. Finally, This is an Amateur radio operating award program. Just like Summits on the Air, Islands on the air, and others (listed in the see also section). If DGG and other admins feel so strongly about deleting this program, then all the other Amateur radio operating award programs including that entire category of them should be removed completely from the amateur radio project WikiProject Amateur radio. If there are other ways to go about keeping the article with some other modifications to it, I'm certainly open to suggestions, and would prefer that modifications were made to it than just out-right deletion. If you want I'd be more than happy to remove both the two references to the parks on the air website if that would make it qualify better. Thanks for your consideration Zul32 (talk) 23:18, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment: I'm not an admin, I'm a new page reviewer. TomCat4680 (talk) 23:22, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment: I'm not an admin, I'm a new page reviewer. TomCat4680 (talk) 23:22, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

POTA is a program, like many others in the Ham Radio Community, that expands on other programs. In this case, the ARRL has National Parks On The Air (NPOTA), and Parks On The Air (POTA) is an extension of that, including, not just National Parks, but Parks of any kind. There are also a great many State "Parks On The Air" groups, like Wisconsin Parks On The Air, etc. I'm not sure why Wikipedia would want to remove an informational article about an activity enjoyed by Thousands of People in the Ham Radio Community. Treating this article like it is some kind of news agency or business is a bit short-sighted and shallow. There is not "advertising" as in "we wanna make money"... mostly because, as Ham Radio Operators, we are forbidden, by law, from Pecuniary Interests. Yes, we are advertising our activities, for the betterment and fun of Ham Radio Operators. I'll provide some of the resources that can be linked to such an article here, which explain the purpose and rules for the activity. First off, maybe a better understanding of Amateur Radio is needed? Amateur Radio or, Ham Radio, as it is commonly called, is a Federal Service that requires the users to be licensed. All the requirements for Amateur Radio can be found in CFR Title 47: Telecommunication, PART 97—AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE. More information can be found on the FCC web site, the ARRL web site , and a variety of other websites with a simple google search for "Part 97 Ham Radio". Within Title 47 Part 97 are some simple purpose statements for the Amateur Radio Service:
 * Comment: I am a POTA radio activator and hunter. This wiki page represents thousands of users and a fast-growing movement within amateur radio. Wiki currently has SOTA and IOTA pages. POTA is similar but is also a very unique aspect of the hobby which has hundreds of thousands of active operators in the US alone, not to mention POTA is an international movement with active operators in several other countries. I am an active user and financial contributor to Wiki and I think this page out to remain on the site. de K2PMD. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pauldordal (talk • contribs) 23:45, 29 August 2019 (UTC) : Note:THis user has made no other edits on Wikipedia.
 * Keep another active POTA enthusiast here, KJ4LAB. We are unpaid volunteers that actively practice our radio skills so that when emergencies happen, we're prepared. When I set up at parks, I am often asked about this aspect of the hobby and it would be nice to point them to a wikipedia entry. I'll be glad to add to this entry as I better understand what's needed to keep it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scook35758 (talk • contribs) 01:22, 30 August 2019 (UTC) : Note:THis user has made no other edits on Wikipedia.
 * No, you do not; otherwise you would be citing sources. You have not provided any sources at all, or any rationale based on deletion policy. Uncle G (talk) 10:10, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete no independent sourcing and blatant advertising. Theroadislong (talk) 15:26, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep I'm not what you might call an active POTA enthusiast, but I am a Ham Radio Enthusiast.

As many might be aware, Ham Radio Operators have helped during a variety of Natural Disasters in the past many years. Most recently, several Ham Radio Operators were taken to Puerto Rico to help after the hurricane devastated the area. These operators are not normally professional radio operators... hence AMATEUR radio. However, they have skills in using the radio via activities as have been mentioned. Wikipedia is a resourced used by many people to find out about a variety of things. In this case, this article should be linked to other articles of activities enjoyed by Amateur Radio Enthusiasts. It isn't, by itself, some kind of activity that would be reported on or well known in the world as something people do... unlike Ham Radio. But even that is surrounded by a stigma that has held on for decades: the Old, Fat, Bald Men who sit in their basements trying to contact Martians. Well, with POTA, NPOTA, JOTA (Jamboree on the Air, a Scouting Activity for Scout Aged Kids)  we have actually encouraged a whole new group of younger Amateur Radio Operators. But without the ability to deliver the information via information outlets, such as Wikipedia, we have a more limited and restricted ability to deliver the information to those who may be interested. If there are any doubts about it, the National Parks Service touts their favor of such programs. In any case, I'm hoping that this Wikipedia Page won't be dismissed so readily. It is useful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DMamanakis (talk • contribs) 18:01, 30 August 2019 (UTC) : Note:THis user has made no other edits on Wikipedia.
 * § 97.1 Basis and purpose.
 * The rules and regulations in this part are designed to provide an amateur radio service having a fundamental purpose as expressed in the following principles:
 * (a) Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communications.
 * (b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the radio art.
 * (c) Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules which provide for advancing skills in both the communication and technical phases of the art.
 * (d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts.
 * (e) Continuation and extension of the amateur's unique ability to enhance international goodwill.
 * You will notice that part of the purpose is to "Encourage and Improve" the service through using it. POTA, as with many other activities like Fox Hunting (Transmitter_hunting), Summits on the Air, Islands on the air, and other Amateur radio operating award programs, like DX_Century_Club, etc, which are designed to encourage Amateur Radio Operators to use their radios, and not just from the comfort of their own homes. These activities fulfil the "Basis and Purpose" of the Amateur Radio Service.

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Right now there is not a single keep argument that has shown evidence of notability according to Wikipedia's particular definition of notability.
 * Comment None of the above keeps are relevant. They are arguments for why the program is or ought to be important, not why it meets the standards for notability. If any of the people above wouldcare to writea sourced article, I don't think there would be any objection.  DGG ( talk ) 08:58, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep This is a relevant topic worthy of inclusion. WP:NOTCLEANUP and WP:IMPERFECT. Lightburst (talk) 13:01, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Your argument is as devoid of valid basis as those of the single-purpose accounts. Where are the published independent sources from people with good reputations for fact checking and accuracy documenting this subject in depth? Uncle G (talk) 10:10, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 09:08, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep Amateur Radio is a notable topic with an extensive network of existing articles on Wikipedia. I am an Amateur Radio operator, and years before I got my license, I read many Amateur Radio-related articles. Within the past year I have actually searched for a POTA article and was disappointed to find that there wasn't one. has created an article for a noteworthy topic and has provided more references than many new articles have. I'm discouraged to see a deletion discussion so quickly after article creation. The article is not promotional nor advertisement; it is an article about a popular and significant part of the Amateur Radio hobby. The images in the article pre-existed Zul32's creation of Parks on the Air. Other articles about very comparable subjects have existed for some time, such as Islands on the air, Summits on the Air, and Amateur Radio Lighthouse Society. If the POTA article needs to go, then the other "on the air" articles need to go as well. To quote relevant sections of WP:N, "Notable topics have attracted attention over a sufficiently significant period of time" & "Notability is based on the existence of suitable sources, not on the state of sourcing in an article". Various types of Amateur Radio operation similar to POTA have attracted attention over a significant period of time (such as Contesting, DXing, Field Day, QRP operation, international operation, and emergency operation), and many suitable sources exist for the POTA contest and POTA activities (such as ARRL's website, QST magazine, and the National Contest Journal (NCJ) magazine). (These are just the links & sources I was already aware of or found in 30 seconds; Amateur Radio is an incredibly vast hobby with an extensive network of websites supporting and reporting on the hobby.) —danhash (talk)
 * Other stuff exists is not a valid argument and the two external links do not mention Parks on the Air? Theroadislong (talk) 19:16, 5 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Comment My keep vote listed above still stands. I've just recently found a number of notable sources for news articles that this can now reference. I've inserted a new Activities/Events section which is really the main focus of the notable references. I didn't realize there was a huge difference between search engines! Anyway, please re-review and give your vote/opinion now. There are certainly more references which I plan to add in the future. Thanks for your time. Zul32 (talk) 17:18, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
 * You have already voted once above, you cannot do it twice! Theroadislong (talk) 18:31, 5 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep — Preceding unsigned comment added by W2MSA (talk • contribs) 21:11, 5 September 2019 (UTC) Note:This user has made no other edits on Wikipedia.
 * Delete per nomination. After all the argumentation, a careful examination of extant and discovered sources shows that the subject, for better or worse, does not meet the criteria of verifiable, independent notability. The "arguments" to Keep are very weak, i.e.
 * "I am a financial contributor to Wiki and I think this page [ought] to remain on the site." Which is just WP:ILIKEIT with a twist.
 * "When I set up at parks, I am often asked about this aspect of the hobby and it would be nice to point them to a Wikipedia entry." Yet, Wikipedia is neither a directory nor a manual.
 * "If [you] delete this program, then all the other amateur radio operating award programs...should be removed completely." Of course, this runs flat against WP:OSE.
 * "It is useful!" We have WP:USEFUL for precisely this line.
 * "Amateur Radio is a notable topic with an extensive network of existing articles on Wikipedia" and this is actually, absolutely true but amateur radio's own notability, does not (explicitly, per WP:INHERITED) supply notability to every subject related to amateur radio.
 * "Why Wikipedia would want to remove an informational article about an activity enjoyed by Thousands of People in the Ham Radio Community?" Folks, Wikipedia editors are not evil miscreants. There are policies and guidelines about what goes up or cannot go up. There is no agenda against ham radio, just as there is (and should not be!) no agenda for it. This is, by all accounts, an enjoyable, constructive, and useful activity but Wikipedia is not the place where we support social or other issues.
 * -The Gnome (talk) 11:19, 12 September 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.