Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Parys Sylver (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. JForget 00:35, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Parys Sylver
AfDs for this article: 
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Fails Notability (people). Self published author and uncredited bit-part actor/extra (according to user-submitted content on IMDB). A Google search finds nothing useful - however there are plenty of hits for the name those 'free press release'-type sites, various web forums and on Usenet (some *very* outlandish claims there!), which leads me to believe that someone is trying very hard to publicize this person online. I've actually encountered people inserting unverified claims about this person on WP for several years now (usually along the lines of how he's been writing songs for various pop stars), or just trying to insert the name into various lists to get it on the 'pedia.

I was tempted to speedy G4 this - but I'm sending it to AfD due to the non-substantially identical nature of the previous content. Suggest salting if closed as delete. Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 05:14, 28 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep. If you look at this IMDB page] you'll see coverage by multiple third-party sources, passing WP:BIO. Ironholds (talk) 08:06, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I respectfully disagree. IMDB is mostly user-generated content and neither reference is linked. Investigating further, I can find nothing about this person in the New University archives and a Google search for "New University" "Parys Sylver" yields only IMDB and an IMDB-sourced page. It would also seem that SPRACI is a user-generated directory/blog. --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 08:20, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. IMDb is not a reliable source for notability - anyone can have an IMDb page. SPRACI is a user-generated press release site. The issue in which Parys Sylver purportedly appears doesn't exist - New Univesity didn't publish a December 7, 2005 issue (and he's not in the November 7 issue either). Given that discrepancy, can anything in this article be trusted to be accurate? --NellieBly (talk) 10:45, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep. The information is found on numerous sites. I see that on this site, IMDB is used as a reference all the time, but i notice in this case its not valid. Kurt, I am new here, and my article does need tightening, and we are a community so hopefully we can work together and make the article better. I also noticed you deleted this article before, its previous form may have not been ready, but as you can see alot has changed for this artist. he is a well known urban fiction author, he has wrote for Hilary Duff and has been on television shows. He has done more than numerous American Idol rejects that have their own pages. Kookee22 (talk) 00:00, 29 July 2009 (UTC) — Kookee22 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Please see Notability (people), WP:V, Reliable sources, No_original_research and WP:SPS. IMDB is not a reliable, third-party, published source and should not be used as a reference to determine notability (and if it is elsewhere on WP, it shouldn't be). I (or anyone else here, in fact) could probably get my name added to IMDB if I wanted to. The 'New University' reference mentioned at IMDB appears not to exist and, as previously stated, 'SPRACI' is completely user-generated with no editorial oversight and hence, not a reliable source. As for the claim of being a well-known author, his books are both clearly vanity press/print on demand publications - see Notability (books), so an independent, reliable, third-party source (i.e. *not* one of those free press release sites or something from a web forum, fansite or similar) will be required to support the claim of notability within his field. Likewise, the claim of writing songs for Hilary Duff (I've looked through the ASCAP database and I can't find any reference to this claimed collaboration) - these claims have actually arisen in years past on various HD-related articles (IIRC, collaboration with Mandy Moore was also claimed at one point) and no corroborating evidence has ever been forthcoming when challenged. If Parys Sylver has indeed 'done more than numerous American Idol rejects', then undoubtedly someone with a 'reputation fact-checking and accuracy' will have written about him in a places more esteemed than a bunch of websites that will basically publish anything submitted to them. Provide these references and there will be no problem. --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 06:45, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * With all due respect, i think to say its so easy to get one's name in IMDB than everyone who wanted on would have one. As with wikipedia, IMDB has editors and validity researchers to make sure information is indeed accurate. It appears that on numerous sites including his own Parys Sylver is indeed mentioned (including Hilary Duff). 18:38, 29 July 2009 (UTC)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kookee22 (talk • contribs)
 * With all due respect, you wildly overstate IMDB fact-checking capabilities. Bottom line: they're not reliable. --Calton | Talk 21:46, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. Not even close. Even if the few references were legitimate -- which they've been overall demonstrated not to be -- this guy's biography -- which manages to be wildly overwritten in only a few sentences -- doesn't belong here. --Calton | Talk 21:46, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Overall, with all do respect prior to ur vote the majority was to keep. Not it is just equal. The sources are legitimate, these books do exist, the show The OC is a real show, it was proven back in 2006 that he did write songs for Hilary Duff. 03:12, 30 July 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.208.58.63 (talk) — 72.208.58.63 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * In that case, prove it to the standards required for Wikipedia. --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 11:01, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Gladly. In the case of Hilary Duff, apparently she had some sessions with him back in the summer of 2006 where she recorded three known songs "Can't Rain All The Time", "Go At It Again", and "The Way" the first two have leaked on the internet as early as that summers. 1 2 3 4 Just to name a few. 72.208.58.63 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:42, 30 July 2009 (UTC).
 * Comment - and not a single one of those links is a reliable source, they are all user edited and submitted. Canterbury Tail   talk  00:53, 1 August 2009 (UTC)


 * KEEP It's nice that this page is back, however it needs to be edited much better than it is. as is, it looks pretty friggin bare. Firegirl223 (talk)
 * NOTE: Something stinks here. User:Firegirl223, inactive since 2006 and a previous creator of the Parys Sylver article becomes active again to vote in this AfD. User has also edited Hilary Duff-related articles and Trevor Blumas (Parys Sylver also seems to have some sort of obsession with Trevor Blumas and certain rumours about his private life that should not be discussed per BLP - Google hits, there used to be loads more). Digging deeper (and I only just realized this now) the Parys Sylver article was first created by User:Cherryrain - who was one of the users from a massive sockfarm centred around a series of hoax articles (see Articles for deletion/CrystalCherry) which I helped to uncover back in 2005. Cherryrain also had an interest in the same salacious rumours about Trevor Blumas' private life (and Mandy Moore). There is also User:Parys (whom I also just remembered) whose contributions and writing style are identical to all the above-named users. Yep, something *really* stinks here. Looks like this nonsense never really went away... --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 19:43, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Edit: A lot of this stuff is to be found in deleted edits, so only admins will be able see it. --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 19:45, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * NOTE That Kurt you played highly in those online wars. (Thank you google and Kurt), The CrystalCherry article has nothing to do with the Parys Sylver article other than coming around the same time. There is no other connection. Seems to me your on a mission. Theres really nothing else to add, books are real, his acting career has been proven along with his contributions to the music world. This sounds more like a vendetta. Kookee22 (talk) 18:15, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Note Also I think you should remove the item claiming Parys has an obsession with anyone. That is with out truth or merit. Do you have any sources for that? Kookee22 (talk) 18:17, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * See the edit history of the Blumas article. Edits by User:Firegirl223, User:Parys and User:Cherryrain making and re-making the same allegations. --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 19:00, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * No actually i wouldnt make such allegation based off the online edits from ANYONE with the ability to create a profile. And futhermore this Michael Pardo information is also availible on google. And secondly you are also implying all three of those profiles are the same person. Got some substantial proff other than your own suspicion? None of that however has to do with this discussion.Kookee22 (talk) 19:12, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe that the behavioural evidence and overlapping contributions speak for themselves. --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 23:43, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete The principal notability is said to be his latest book, but it is self published and, according to worldCat, in a total of one library. . No need to be concerned about editors--there is no way this is even remotely notable.  DGG (talk) 20:06, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete - the nominator has it here. The subject fails WP:N and the only available reference come from unreliable sources. Crafty (talk) 21:04, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete and salt - No reliable third party sources. Person in question does not appear to be notable in any way despite varied and ingenius attempts to get their name spread all around the internet in various degrees of self promotion. Not a single news story, not a single reliable reference and not a single proof of notability outside their self-published books which rank several million down on Amazon. And this is even before the fact that they appear to have discovered a time machine in their article and made announcements in the future. Canterbury Tail   talk  00:48, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete and salt: this is not the only attempt to hoax/blag a way into notability that I've seen, but it's one of the most bloody persistent.Elen of the Roads (talk) 01:33, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete and SALT this is exactly what Wikipedia is not about Vartanza (talk) 05:06, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.