Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Patrick Bouvier Kennedy (3rd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   speedy keep (criterion 1). Malia Ann Obama to stay redirect per consensus on Talk:Family of Barack Obama. Stickee (talk)  06:47, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Patrick Bouvier Kennedy (3rd nomination)

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Someone just blanked out an article. I don't know all the legalese of how to do a deletion so forgive me and don't try to make excuses.

Bottom line: there was a good article on Malia Ann Obama. I saw on the talk page that it was a keep as was Patrick Kennedy. However, the person that doesn't want the Obama article blanked it out so I am doing them a favor by starting the legal process to decide.

Both Kennedy and Obama are minors and children of a president. Kennedy is more obscure since he died after birth. Obama has many news articles about her, some focusing on her and not Barack Obama. Whatever we do, we should be consistent.

NOTE: THE SECOND DELETION DEBATE FOR THIS ARTICLE RESULTED IN A NON_ADMIN SPEEDY KEEP. Should this be done again? I don't know.

Kewlarticle (talk) 02:59, 28 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Is there some policy reason for deleting this article? Monty  845  03:03, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
 * No, it is vandalism. Either that or someone is a religious disciple of Barack Obama.  He asked the press not to cover her (but does mention her and allows photos and even let her give an interview once).  The real reason is that he wants to control the press on his terms, like any parent would.  He doesn't want her hounded except for when he agrees.  One person in Wikipedia decided to be the enforcer for Barack Obama.  The only other explanation is that the person who blanked the article is a vandal. Kewlarticle (talk) 03:07, 28 March 2011 (UTC)


 * possible delete or keep, leaning towards keep undecided but leaning toward keep since the both people are well covered by the press, are more famous than semi-famous actors (who are covered in Wikipedia). I think the term is notable.  However, some may want a press blackout on presidential children (like in Spain) so we might want to follow Spanish customs. Kewlarticle (talk) 03:14, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm either really confused, or this was a completely improper AFD. It looks like the nom is objecting to the redirection of Malia Ann Obama to Family of Barack Obama, but instead of discussing it on a talk page somewhere, immediately started this AFD with a completely unrelated article just because it was about another child of a U.S. president.  The speedy keep the nom refers to was closed as such exactly because it was just a mishmash of presidential children and pet articles thrown together.  I think this should be speedy closed as well, and everything should proceed through normal editing and discussion.  Seriously, never start an AFD under these circumstances.  postdlf (talk) 03:35, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
 * No, this is the right way. The person blanked an article, in effect, deleting it.  So rather than fighting back and forth, this is the right way.  Postdlf, this groups 2 similar articles so we can decide correctly and fairly.  We can't be deleting articles on girls and not on boys, that would be discrimination.  If you say that things should have been discussed on the talk page then you should educate Tvoz, who just blanked it.  By the way, where is the talk page?  Is that the discussion page? Kewlarticle (talk) 03:38, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
 * This is not the right way. Obviously you would leave a note on the talk page of the editor with whom you disagreed, even if it were just to point him to a discussion you started either on the redirect talk page or the target article talk page.  Re: "2 similar articles," see WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS; that two articles are in the same general subject matter does not guarantee them the same treatment.  This AFD is nothing but disruption to prove a point, and as I see you started this AFD with your eighth edit, that raises an eyebrow.  postdlf (talk) 03:43, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The eyebrow is just being nasty. I found the article so I began writing it.  I just followed the discussion tab which had the 2nd nomination so I copied the same thing.  Besides, there is not a toll free number to ask so I did the best I could and asked that people not be too fault finding.  Please don't be fault finding. Kewlarticle (talk) 03:48, 28 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Speedy close The status quo is a redirect, so the page should remain a redirect while discussion takes place. Discussion about creating a separate article should take place at Talk:Family of Barack Obama instead of at an AfD. Cunard (talk) 03:58, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
 * No, the status quo is an article. You are destroying several people's hard work by blanking it.  Discussion, maybe, but discuss it while the article is for everyone to see.  Otherwise, people would be discussing not knowing what the article is about.  It is like discussing an article about Leon Rappoport.  If you blank the Leon article, nobody can discuss it rationally.  If they see the Leon article, they can decide.  The same is with Malia and Patrick.  Kewlarticle (talk) 04:16, 28 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Speedy close, Nos. 1 & 2. No argument for deletion has been presented, and the AFD was started only to resolve an ordinary editing dispute before even a single attempt at discussion had been made with the opposing editor.  postdlf (talk) 04:01, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Speedy close per Cunard and postdlf. There is no bona fide basis stated here for another AfD on Patrick Bouvier Kennedy, and the proper venue for discussion of Malia's redirect is elsewhere.  It is inappropriate to group these two articles together for a simple reason:  Malia's article is a redirect due to specific concerns about articles about minors under Wikipedia policy relating to biographies of living persons.  Sadly, that policy does not apply to poor Baby Patrick.--Arxiloxos (talk) 04:07, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
 * No, the redirect is vandalism, blanking out the article. There is a long article about Malia that someone keeps blanking so they can say it's a redirect. Kewlarticle (talk) 04:16, 28 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment, speedy close means speedy keep Don't be foolish. The status at the time of the AFD was there was an article for both people.  So speedy keep means they both stay, which some don't want.  Speedy delete means two long articles get trashed. Kewlarticle (talk) 04:16, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Kewlarticle has started an WP:ANI thread at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. postdlf (talk) 04:27, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, it seems that the proper thing for people to do is to vote "merge and redirect" instead of blanking the page and redirecting it. After all, the article has been around for a few weeks.  If the proper thing to do is to not have an ANI thread, then they can close it and redirect it here.  The improper thing to do would be to shut off discussion by speedily keeping it here and ending the ANI.


 * merge and redirect, anyone? I vote "keep" I have thought it over and the hard work of others should not be deleted.  Let's keep both articles.  Both people are well covered by the press. Kewlarticle (talk) 04:45, 28 March 2011 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.