Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Patrick McKeown (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Spartaz Humbug! 20:48, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Patrick McKeown

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

No indication of notability in sources, which do not describe him, are not in high quality secondary sources, or only mention him in passing Yobol (talk) 19:57, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Um, is there a reason this AFD was created on the same page as the previous one? Each AFD nomination, even if for the same page, should have a different title. Jinkinson   talk to me  20:16, 29 March 2014 (UTC) Never mind, I just fixed it.
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ireland-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:16, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Medicine-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:17, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:17, 30 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment: The article probably has to be improved, but not deleted. The subject is a well known alternative medicine researcher, leads a non-pharmaceutical asthma treatment school in Ireland, and among the Western researchers of Buteyko method he is the most successful. After the death of the Russian medical practitioner Konstantin Buteyko, who invented a specific breathing method to control asthma, his relatives and followers started a "patent" war, even though the invention was not patented and everybody could practice this method. There are 3 schools today: 1. Moscow school led by Buteylo's x-patient & x-lover, whose family fights everybody else, using fake documentation, claiming that only they have the right to teach the Buteyko method and trying to push everybody else out of the field, 2. Voronezh school, led by Buteyko's daughter and her family (http://www.buteyko.ru/rus/voronezh/index.shtml), and 3. Western School, led by the subject of the article for deletion, who was personally certified by Mr Buteyko and approved for starting a Buteyko school in Ireland by Mr Buteyko's daughter, shortly after Buteyko's death. For right now, only one MOSCOW(!) School is presented in wikipedia, all info about other participants have been constantly deleted (I tried to add some Western school info into Buteyko method page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buteyko_method). Therefore, I think that constant attempts to delete the article have something to do with this fight over the non-existing patent rights. The subject of the article for deletion also has a 2-3 high-ranked on Amazon books (one was republished 3 times and was purchased by many public libraries according to WordCat), also I know that  Wiley has recently signed a publishing contract with him for one of the new books on Buteyko method  technique, ISBN is not yet available. Please do not delete it, please improve if you have time, the article will grow in the future and will become bigger and better. I'll help with editing, translations and source verification if needed. Thanks.--sobaka_kachalova 14:42, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect to Buteyko method as lacking in depth coverage in independent third party sources. Stuartyeates (talk) 01:28, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I believe there will be enough coverage within a year or even a few months, he just got a 6 figures publishing contract, which makes it 3 high-ranked books and proves that their author is well known in his field. He is also a frequent speaker on Irish TV in health related programs with popular TV hosts (I will send a proof link later).--sobaka_kachalova 05:28, 4 April 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SobakaKachalova (talk • contribs)

 — User: (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica1000 04:01, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

 Will try to improve the article with Russian and Irish sources today-tomorrow. Appreciate any help. Thanks.--sobaka_kachalova 22:31, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete: clearly non-notable and heavily promotional. Alternatively, could be redirected to Buteyko method. MastCell Talk 00:14, 8 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep and improve- The subject does pass the notability criteria, here are some medicine related sources:
 * articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2099/12/31/buteyko-breathing-method.aspx - large interview on Irish TV with Joseph Mercola
 * http://doctorstevenpark.com/expert-interview-buteyko-breathing-with-patrick-mckeown
 * http://www.dentaltown.com/dentaltown/Article.aspx?i=334&aid=4553 Irish dental newspaper, which has 2 of his articles (listed here: http://www.dentaltown.com/dentaltown/Article.aspx?action=BYAUTHOR&a=627)
 * http://runnersconnect.net/running-interviews/how-to-breathe-when-running Interview with P.McKeown in a periodical for athletes.
 * http://www.buteyko.ie/images/pdf/Irish_Dentist_Journal_article.pdf Irish Dentist Journal. Cranio Facial changes and mouth breathing. June 2011

plus books reviews --sobaka_kachalova 02:56, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
 * http://www.amazon.com/Asthma-Free-Naturally-Patrick-McKeown/dp/0954599608 22 customers reviews
 * http://www.amazon.com/Close-Your-Mouth-Buteyko-Handbook/dp/0954599616 32 customers reviews
 * https://www.forewordreviews.com/reviews/asthma-free-naturally/
 * http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=n%3A283155%2Cp_66%3A9781573243728 30 customers reviews --sobaka_kachalova 03:20, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Media Coverage with multiple links to the interviews here: http://www.buteykoclinic.com/press-media.php Also mentioned here as the person, who brought Buteyko method to Ireland (http://www.independent.ie/unsorted/features/my-miracle-asthma-cure-26001650.html). The above should be more than enough to prove notability. --sobaka_kachalova 19:21, 9 April 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SobakaKachalova (talk • contribs)  — SobakaKachalova (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Mentioned as a sleep expert(http://www.independent.ie/woman/diet-fitness/is-snoring-wrecking-your-marriage-26762839.html) and internationally renown Buteyko practitioner (mp3 interview with Dr Steven Park http://snoring.ie/drstevenparkinterview.php) --sobaka_kachalova 21:06, 9 April 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SobakaKachalova (talk • contribs)
 * large interview on iTunes (listed there as #6) https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/primal-diet-modern-health/id577470427--sobaka_kachalova 03:03, 10 April 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SobakaKachalova (talk • contribs)
 * Almost all of the above websites are either not reliable (Mercola, amazon.com reviews (really?)), are not independent of the subject, or only mention him in passing. Yobol (talk) 01:15, 11 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment - Linked the article from Buteyko method. Also probably an extra section (or one) should be added: one on his work regarding sleep apnea and asthma&dentistry relation (heavy medical terminology - I cannot do it myself).Thanks. --sobaka_kachalova 15:58, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I am the author of the article, going to remove my Keep Vote from the top and add it after the red Relisted notice, since I added my Keep after it was counted already, and now it does not show up in User:Cyberbot I/Current AfD's/. Hoping the article will survive. --sobaka_kachalova 15:58, 10 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment - Mentioned here http://www.lenus.ie/hse/bitstream/10147/315225/1/MAR14Art2.pdf as "internationally recognized Buteyko expert" (p.16) --sobaka_kachalova 19:50, 10 April 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SobakaKachalova (talk • contribs)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the Article Rescue Squadron's list of content for rescue consideration. sobaka_kachalova 21:16, 10 April 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SobakaKachalova (talk • contribs)


 * Keep counts, as does other newspapers in Ireland covering him in detail.  Checking Highbeam  I see The Irish Times, Evening Herald, and various other newspapers do cover him as well.   D r e a m Focus  22:45, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm confused at how that source is considered to be covering him "in detail". It has one and a half sentence describing him, and has two quotes from him. It covers Butyko in detail, not McKeown, it seems. Yobol (talk) 01:15, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
 * It mentions he brought the technique to Ireland, it mentions he suffered from Asthma for 25 years, him trying to convince the Asthma Society of his method, etc. So detailed about him, content not length.  My highbeam account expired sometime ago, so I can't read the other articles in detail, but he is mentioned in the summary.   D r e a m Focus  01:50, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I guess we have different definitions of what "significant coverage" means; one and a half sentences doesn't cut it for me. *shrug*. Yobol (talk) 01:57, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Those are the links to scientific conference materials and announcements. Info posted for such temporary events is not expected to be long, should not be widely popular (besides the research field is narrow). Even though you called them "barely functioning websites" in order to delete a part of the article, this links are good enough for temporary scientific events. And they are reliable, independent and acceptable secondary sources. sobaka_kachalova 04:19, 11 April 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SobakaKachalova (talk • contribs)


 * Delete Comment as nominator. Almost all sources only mention the topic in passing, or are not reliable sources. Yobol (talk) 01:10, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Yobol, the nomination is counted as a Delete !vote, a second Delete is redundant. -- Green  C  15:06, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Incorrect. There are several mp3 media interviews with him (see above), at least 2 or 3 are longer than an hour. I think WP:N is proven. --sobaka_kachalova 01:26, 11 April 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SobakaKachalova (talk • contribs)
 * Unfortunately, a link to itunes isn't a reliable source. We need to establish that there is significant coverage in independent, reliable, secondary sources. The sources presented so far are either not reliable, not independent, or not significant in coverage. Yobol (talk) 01:39, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Why did you delete the sentence from Buteyko method as non-notable? Aviva is the 5th largest insurance group in the world, and they offer McKeown's breathing program based on Buteyko method. The company is well reputable, and if they decided to offer this program, it means that the program is worth of mentioning in Buteyko method article in wiki. And McKeown is Buteyko's former student, accredited directly by him. How come it is not enough notable? Why did you delete referenced parts of Patrick McKeown article? The references clear show that he does conduct the research the paragraph was talking about, and plus - there are other multiple references which prove it. Besides, wikipedia is not a scientific journal, and media coverage is acceptable as well depending on the source quality. --sobaka_kachalova 02:03, 11 April 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SobakaKachalova (talk • contribs)
 * Here are 2 other large interviews: Dr Steven Park with McKeown http://snoring.ie/drstevenparkinterview.php - (alternative link, same interview) http://doctorstevenpark.com/expert-interview-buteyko-breathing-with-patrick-mckeown, articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2099/12/31/buteyko-breathing-method.aspx  - Joseph Mercola with McKeown - from the listed above (there are more than 2 - see the above) sobaka_kachalova 02:17, 11 April 2014 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by SobakaKachalova (talk • contribs)
 * FYI:WP:NNC Notability guidelines do not apply to content within an article. Stop deleting parts of the text together with the references "for notability reasons" in both Buteyko method and Patrick McKeown. Notability applies only to the subject of the article, and not to the links. If you believe that the citation is unreliable, not independent or needs an additional coverage, please mark it as a HTML comment and place a "Citation needed" template with your comment in it. Thanks. sobaka_kachalova 04:42, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Health and fitness-related deletion discussions. sobaka_kachalova 05:08, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Applied for Editor assistance/Requests. --sobaka_kachalova 12:16, 11 April 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SobakaKachalova (talk • contribs)
 * Applied for Editor assistance/Requests. --sobaka_kachalova 12:16, 11 April 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SobakaKachalova (talk • contribs)


 * Keep Recognized expert in his field who often appears in the press in that capacity (mostly in the UK, Ireland and Australia). This is per WP:PROF #7 "Criterion 7 may be satisfied, for example, if the person is frequently quoted in conventional media as an academic expert in a particular area." I found so many with ProQuest it's too much to transfer here but contact WP:REX for verification. Below is one example from the Irish Times in which he is called an "expert", plus two other sources: a book review, and a source showing he has been influential.
 * Sylvia Thompson. "Health Board". Irish Times [Dublin] 10 Sep 2013. Abstract: "nHealth show: The newly branded Your Health Show (formerly Rude Health Show) goes ahead on Saturday and Sunday in the RDS, Ballsbridge, Dublin. Nutritional guru Patrick Holford; GP and obesity specialist Dr Eva Orsmond; asthma expert Patrick McKeown; medical herbalist Vivienne Campbell; and David Flynn from the Happy Pear vegetarian cafe in Greystones, Co Wicklow are among those giving talks and cookery demonstrations." (Database: ProQuest)
 * Journal of the Australian Traditional-Medicine Society. Mar2014, Vol. 20 Issue 1, p50-50. Abstract: "An interview with Mim Beim, member of the Australian Traditional Medicine Society (ATMS) professional organization, is presented. She says that she was taught a variety of modalities, like nutrition and massage, when she studied naturopathy. She emphasizes that Irish Buteyko practitioner Patrick McKeown has influenced her practice in natural medicine. She also stresses her perception about the growth in natural medicine." (Database: EBSCO Host)
 * Wendy Parry. Coventry Evening Telegraph. 01/28/2006. Abstract: Book Review Asthma-free Naturally by Patrick McKeown. (Database: EBSCO Host)
 * -- Green  C  15:33, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
 * It seems quite dubious that WP:PROF applies to McKeown. As far as I can tell, he isn't an academic, which is the defining criteria of WP:PROF. He holds no academic position, nor has he published any academic research in scholarly journals. Seems a stretch to use this criteria to justify his inclusion. Yobol (talk) 14:38, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Huge thank you to GreenC for WP:REX hint, I left a verification request there. --sobaka_kachalova 15:13, 12 April 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SobakaKachalova (talk • contribs)


 * Delete. I haven't followed up on all the sources cited here, but being mentioned in a newspaper as a practitioner, or spokesman for a method does not notability make in my book.  The alleged interview with Mercola on Irish TV is not an interview, it is an extended promotional video.  No questions were asked, only McKeown is speaking. As for the sources in the article, none of them even mention him (they talk about the Buteyko method, but not him) except for his own resume and a very spammy runner's site. Not convinced that last one isn't paid for.  Spinning  Spark  22:49, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
 * For the Mercola interview, it's not just the video. Below is the long text, entirely written by Mercola with his citations from McKeown. In particular, in paragraph 6 from the top, Mercola states, "Patrick McKeown, who was qualified by Dr. Buteyko in 2002, the year before the doctor’s death, is now one of the top teachers of the Buteyko method in the world. He’s been teaching full-time in his native Ireland and abroad for the last 11 years." (source: articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2099/12/31/buteyko-breathing-method.aspx ) --sobaka_kachalova 02:07, 12 April 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SobakaKachalova (talk • contribs)
 * And what makes Mercola a reliable source? The whole site is spam and the intention of the articles is to sell stuff.  The page you link ends with a plug for a DVD and an "add to cart" button.  That says all you need to know about this site.  Spinning  Spark  09:04, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
 * For Mercola: the existence of Joseph Mercola proves that he is notable and worth of citing. Besides, he is member of Association of American Physicians and Surgeons. For McKeown: Notability (people)|Additional criteria: "People are likely to be notable if they meet any of the following standards." Thus, for WP:AUTHOR: "The person is regarded as an important figure or is widely cited by peers or successors", - please see Patrick McKeown, this discussion, ProQuest, and the web. for WP:AUTHOR: "The person has created, or played a major role in co-creating, a significant or well-known work, or collective body of work, that has been the subject of an independent book or feature-length film, or of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews.", - please see his book Asthma-Free Naturally: Everything You Need to Know to Take Control of Your Asthma (3rd ed.), ISBN 9781573243728. sobaka_kachalova 12:07, 12 April 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SobakaKachalova (talk • contribs)
 * Notability is not inherited, McKeown does not become notable just because Mercola is notable (and after seeing his website I would question that as well).
 * You keep referring to ProQuest. I was going to ask you what ProQuest think McKeown's h-index is, but I took a look for myself instead.  Proquest has NO RESULTS FOR MCKEOWN WHATSOEVER.
 * Likewise, I am seeing no evidence under the WP:AUTHOR criteria that he is widely cited. What's his h-index?
 * Again, under WP:AUTHOR, where are the links to the book, feature-length film, or multiple articles of which his work is the subject? Not got any so far.  Plenty of the sources in the article discuss the Buteyko method, but far from indicating that McKeown played a major role, they fail to even mention him.  Spinning  Spark  15:02, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I said that Mercola is worth of citing. Not, that McKeown is notable because of him. McKeown's notability is supported but multiple testimonials, not just one. --sobaka_kachalova 15:19, 12 April 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SobakaKachalova (talk • contribs)

Posted a sources verification request to WP:REX --sobaka_kachalova 15:11, 12 April 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SobakaKachalova (talk • contribs)
 * Fine, but proving that McKeown has published papers does not, by itself, do anything to enhance his notability. Many people publish, but they are not all notable.  It is how much others (reliable sources) have cited him, or discussed him that counts.  Spinning  Spark  15:23, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
 * +His bestselling book "Asthma Free Naturally" - Reviews (simple search) https://www.google.com/search?q=Asthma+Free+Naturally+reviews&rlz=1C1TSNF_enUS463US463&oq=Asthma+Free+Naturally+reviews&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i60.4253j0j7&sourceid=chrome&espv=2&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8, Also see a couple of review links above, plus it was cited here: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0422763812000520

+wide media coverage. should be enough altogether for notability proof.--sobaka_kachalova 01:01, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Give it a rest, those so-called reviews are all sites trying to sell books. They are not independent, so do not confer notability.  One citation in an obscure Egyptian journal is nowhere near enough to establish notability.  Spinning  Spark  01:32, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I have posted a request for more info. Have some patience. --sobaka_kachalova 02:03, 13 April 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SobakaKachalova (talk • contribs)


 * Delete. No indepth coverage in reliable sources..advertorials on non-RS websites & promotional videos do not count.94.195.46.224 (talk) 14:58, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete. Presently, the existing coverage of Patrick McKeown in reliable sources is not significant enough to meet the WP:GNG or WP:PROF criteria. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 15:40, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete: Spark and Sobaka's interaction above make it clear that this individual is not notable, and even if some borderline notability can be established, WP:NOTPROMOTION would serve to bar inclusion. Wikipedia is not the venue to promote this individual's works. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 19:00, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
 * WP:NOTPROMOTION does not apply here - the style of the article is not promotional (to my eye), and anyway it can be changed to more encyclopedic by 2 or 3 minor edits. The fact the someone wrote a bestselling book has no power to bar him/her from been included to wiki. Writing such a piece is not a crime which could "bar", and even conversely...--sobaka_kachalova 05:39, 14 April 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SobakaKachalova (talk • contribs)


 * Comment: This does not look like a fair discussion process and looks rather like lobbying because the majority of votes against the article is coming from the people, directly related to conventional medicine, which the Buteyko method opposes. As well as Buteyko method article seems to be occupied by the same type of editors - it's overall sceptical, every positive results have been deleted as "poorly referenced". Same thing had happened to Konstantin Buteyko himself, who was bullied by the Russian conventional doctors through his entire lifetime. However his method has gotten a lot of followers worldwide, among which McKeown is probably the most notable one. --sobaka_kachalova 20:47, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Just for the record, I'm an electrical engineer. Not that it should make any difference if I was a medic. Maybe there's a reason it's poorly sourced...  Spinning  Spark  21:58, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Spinning, it is very easy to claim absence of reliable sources in the field of alternative medicine, because the only sources undoubtedly accepted as reliable are the conventional medicine scientific periodicals and other works, which would most likely oppose the alt. medicine views and try to block them for multiple reasons, including financial. Everything else is considered either unreliable, or non-independent, or "unimportant" (c. Yobol), :) And that in turn, I believe, creates sort of a bug in the proof system. The alternative medicine exists in some kind of "unreliable" niche, beyond which it is rarely allowed. And that is why Buteyko himself was not accepted and blocked in Russia with his new method. Because it was not beneficial from the conventional medicine point of view: if everybody treats asthma by simply correcting his/her breath, what the doctors are going to do then (serious question with a lot of money and many professional medical reputations at risk)? The method itself works, I saw it. However, conventional meds still play sceptical. --sobaka_kachalova 01:47, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
 * See, there are two different issues here. The first is whether McKeown meets the guidelines for inclusion. The second is what our guidelines require. You appear to be arguing the latter, which is not going to prevail here. —/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 04:12, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
 * My mum used the Buteyko method in her last years and found it a great comfort. I have no problem with it, my problem is with the notability of this person. That may change, though, with more significant coverage in reliable sources. But he's not there yet. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 03:06, 14 April 2014 (UTC)


 * More book reviews for Asthma free naturally: http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-236034409.html, http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-188952493.html, http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-135599428.html, http://www.highbeam.com/Search?searchTerm=%22Patrick+McKeown%22+%22asthma+free+naturally%22 --sobaka_kachalova 05:13, 14 April 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SobakaKachalova (talk • contribs)
 * Delete: Most people who are competent in their profession are not notable, there's no shame in that.  Wikipedia is not linkedin.--Milowent • hasspoken  00:20, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
 * What does the "shame" and "competence" get to do with that? Someone does not have to be "competent" to meet WP:N:) --sobaka_kachalova 01:56, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Indeed, it can be just the opposite. My point is that being a competent professional doesn't make one notable by itself.--Milowent • hasspoken  04:52, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Again, (see the above discussion with SpinningSpark): Additional criteria: "People are likely to be notable if they meet any of the following standards." Any means any one, and I got 2. Competence/incompetence has nothing to do with WP:AUTHOR.


 * Delete. He is certainly a "practitioner" of this "therapy", but there's no evidence to show that he's a notable one. Yes, he has written books, but this is not enough: we need evidence that these works are regarded as substantial and significant by his colleagues. As someone else has just remarked, you're not notable just for doing your job; in a specialist area like this you become notable if there is evidence that your peers in that area provide evidence that you are. If other "practitioners" of this "therapy" start citing this guy as important, we can take another look. For now, he's just another "practitioner" of a "therapy". If he later becomes notable for this, or becomes a media star thanks to his "6 figures publishing contract", we can take another look then. RomanSpa (talk) 06:59, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
 * His colleagues and peers are other BBT practitioners, majority of them have no special education in medicine and aren't notable themselves, therefore these references are not accepted by wikipedia. Media sources have also some reflection of that, but wiki hardly accepts media as well, am I wrong? He gave over a hundred interviews to the media, and he is quiet notable within those countries where he practices. And his book received multiple reviews necessary to satisfy WP:AUTHOR. He did some related clinical studies and research on his own (not "just another practitian"), this part was deleted from the article on April 12 ("as unimportant"), and I am waiting for more info on that from WP:REX. --sobaka_kachalova 10:48, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.