Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Patti Bacchus


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Most arguments are for failing notability of politicians. There's an additional argument that, if the position the subject held fails that, then WP:BLP1E should apply to coverage on the firing event. slakr \ talk / 05:18, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Patti Bacchus

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Appears to be non-notable individual/politician. A number of small articles about her, but seems to lack significant coverage. red dogsix (talk) 21:45, 10 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Comment - There are 13,700 articles about her in Google and, in Google News current archive alone, there are 1,350. Please see the notes I made on the talk page for this prominent politican. Women and particularly women politicians are under-represented in Wikipedia. She served as a trustee of a large Canadian school district for 8 years and as Board chair for 6. She caused significant controversy during her terms of service and was recently one of the nine board members removed by the provincial government. The Provincial government removed democratically elected trustees from office. As noted in the Wiki article, she was named one of the top 100 most influential women in the province by the largest newspaper in British Columbia. I do note that my first attempt with the article had a formatting error that wasn't having the citations show up under current markup standards, but the citations were still at the bottom of the page. See also Talk page for this article Westendgirl (talk) 21:54, 10 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Comment - First of all, there are only 142 hits for the name "Patti Bacchus", the number you refer to is for the combined searches of Patt, Bacchus, and Patti Bacchus. Regardless, popularity is not the same as Wikipedia define notability.
 * Being on the school board is not a "prominent" politician. Her firing was a local event.  I agree, women are under represented, but that under representation does not absolve any article from meeting the requirements for inclusion.   red dogsix (talk) 22:45, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

Can I screen shot? I am using quotes and getting far more results. This was not a search without quotes. Those are the exact results I received. Is it possible you are in a location that excludes Canadian search results? I did the search both in Google.ca and in cognito and got identical numbers, so it is not contextualized. I am not suggesting that web notoriety means credibility, but instead disputing the results you brought up first, since you are the one who referred to how many article mentions there are. Bacchus is prominent throughout the province. Wikipedia has lengthy entries for the Vancouver city councillors going back several years, most of whom are far less noteworthy than Bacchus. I am also not suggesting that she be included merely because she is a woman but instead suggesting that her contributions are being minimized in your nomination for AFD. Westendgirl (talk) 23:26, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

And, to clarify, the removal of an entire board of democratically elected public officials is a significant even for the entire province, as well as for this country. I'm not sure where you are from, but one level of government has removed another level of government in its entirety and the key players in that process are noteworthy. Westendgirl (talk) 00:02, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't think I am excluding anything.  Try running the query then go to the last page and see if the number on the last page is the number you are seeing. You may have to go to the 2nd to last page to get a count. Let me know.   Thanks...   red dogsix (talk) 00:31, 11 December 2016 (UTC)


 * I am on page 51 of search results. Still in quotes. "Page 51 of about 13,700 results (2.01 seconds)" The results are from newspapers in Calgary, New Brunswick and several provincial sources, which supports my assertion that she is known outside of her locality. IN the news articles (as opposed to general web search), I am on page 38 of 1350 articles and the timeline ends at 2013, but certainly there should be articles going back further. SHe's even listed in Google Trends as a politician, which is not something most local people manage to do. I wonder if maybe your results are contextualized to where you live. (I find this interesting from a search POV, but also in terms of using articles as authoritaty indicators.) Yahoo general web search (with quotes) gives me 12,700 results. Westendgirl (talk) 00:46, 11 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Major Canadian news outlets cite her repeatedly. "patti bacchus" site:theglobeandmail.com and "patti bacchus" site:nationalpost.com have more than 200 articles between them.


 * I'll have to get back to my computer to look at this further. All I have is my iPad.  red dogsix</i> (talk)


 * I tried it using google.ca and see about the same results from google.com. If you are only showing 10 results per page you will see a large number of pages.  Try setting the "Results per page" to 100 and that will will probably show you the same results as I have.   red <b style="color:#000;">dog</b><i style="color:#000;">six</i> (talk) 05:02, 11 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Changing the number of results displayed per page does not change the number of results. So, in addition to the national newspapers above, I just checked CBC. More than 35 stories and 200 results there. http://www.cbc.ca/gsa/?q=patti+bacchus&gns=SEARCH This is a national media outlet with provincial but not "local" newscasts. Given that there are so many Google, national newspaper and national radio/TV results and that she is also a newspaper editor and journalist and has contributed substantially to Canadian educational issues and policy, I am not clear on what you are trying to establish at this point in arguing this is an AFD. Westendgirl (talk) 07:22, 11 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Actually if yo go to the last page of the CBC link you provided, this is what you get, "In order to show you the most relevant results, we have omitted some entries very similar to the 45 already displayed. If you like, you can repeat the search with the omitted results included."  This removes duplicate hits.


 * Well, regardless of the number of hits either of us sees, the article lacks the support for inclusion. If you were to add some articles of substance that support WP:BASIC, I would support inclusion.   red <b style="color:#000;">dog</b><i style="color:#000;">six</i> (talk) 12:45, 11 December 2016 (UTC)


 * The CBC most certainly does have local news bureaux; while there's only one provincewide CBC Television station in BC, there are six separate CBC Radio One stations which do each report their own local news separately from the "provincewide" service. So the fact that a news story happens to be on the CBC's website does not automatically constitute "nationalized" coverage in and of itself — we still have to base it on whether the substance of the matter is of nationalized significance or not. And what's of national significance here is the event, which can be discussed in the article about the board — it does not demonstrate nationalized significance for every individual person who happens to be involved in the event. Bearcat (talk) 18:12, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
 * <small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. NewYorkActuary (talk) 04:40, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
 * <small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the list of British Columbia-related deletion discussions. NewYorkActuary (talk) 04:40, 12 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete. School board trustees (even school board chairs) do not get Wikipedia articles just for serving on a school board; it is a level of office that does not pass WP:NPOL. While Westendgirl is correct that the firing of the school board is a notable event, it's an event that warrants coverage in our article about the board — it does not, in and of itself, constitute justification for a standalone WP:BLP of an individual trustee, because it just makes her a WP:BLP1E. She can be mentioned in the board's article, but nothing here rises to the level needed to make her a suitable topic for her own biographical article separate from the board's article. Bearcat (talk) 18:01, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete school board chairs are not notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:30, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep Easily meets the GNG with headlines in the Vancouver Sun, Global News, CBC, The Globe and Mail, CTV and more from at least 2014 to 2016.  Th e S te ve   15:35, 13 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Headlines for the Board is not a in-depth discussion of the individual.  red <b style="color:#000;">dog</b><i style="color:#000;">six</i> (talk) 16:08, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * The board meets GNG with headlines in media outlets from at least 2014 to 2016. The coverage of Bacchus as an individual topic separate from the board does not. For similar comparisons: the CEO of a company does not get a standalone BLP just because his name happens to appear in media coverage about the company; he gets an article when he's the subject of significant coverage separate from the company as a whole — and the lead singer of a band does not get a standalone BLP just because her name appears in media coverage about the band; she gets an article when she's the subject of significant coverage, in her own right, separate from the band as a whole. GNG is not met just because her name appears in coverage which is about the board; it will be met only if and when coverage which is specifically about her, isolated from "coverage of the board as a whole", can be shown. Bearcat (talk) 17:03, 13 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete or Merge into an article about the Board. On her own, she is not notable.Yellow Diamond&#39;s Pearl (talk) 21:13, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete - Non-notable school board member fails WP:GNG. --  Dane talk  00:20, 14 December 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.