Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Paul Avion


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was delete. Jaranda wat's sup 20:39, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Paul Avion and Pop Music United

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

Fails WP:MUSIC, WP:V, WP:OR. Total lack of non-trivial independent reliable sources. -- Y not? 18:23, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Weak keep Hmmm borderline -its no different to many thousands of articles on wikipedia that are of the same ilk . He has toured with many notable musicians but the article doesn't site any reliable professional sources to assert notability. It s difficult to draw the line with notability often -it depends on how much coverage you want wikipedia to have. I'd suggest find some professional references and if not delete ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "Expecting you" Contribs 18:29, 17 July 2007 (UTC).
 * Hmmm... sounds like WP:SEWAGE -- Y not? 18:35, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * There's no need to draw the line with notability here, as the inquiry can satisfactorily end way back at verifiability. · jersyko   talk  19:26, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete His notability seems to exist only from his proximity to notable figures and not to anything accomplished on his own. NobutoraTakeda 19:20, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete, unverifiable in reliable sources. · jersyko   talk  19:26, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete, no notability, fails WP:V and WP:MUSIC. Possible db-band-worthy. Ten Pound Hammer  • (((Broken clamshells • Otter chirps))) 19:51, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete - sort of drifts towards WP:MUSIC with some of the claims, but the albums all appear to be self-produced, and I can't track any sources that verify the claims. Tony Fox (arf!) review? 20:13, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong keep Paul Avion is actually more notable for the creation of the "pataphor" than for music. There are interwikis for the pataphor in French, Spanish and Polish, at least one YouTube movie concerning the pataphor, and board discussions in English, Spanish and French on the Web. But mainly, it appears in literary magazines, and even appeared in a Chilean newspaper article about the Chilean government, a verifiable linked source to a "real" newspaper. See: http://www.elclarin.cl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5947&Itemid=1189 For what all that's worth, he is the author of that concept. -- drhtl
 * Wow... that article is even worse. See Articles for deletion/Pataphor -- Y not? 21:55, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete - no notability. --Storm Rider (talk) 00:25, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep - This passes WP:Music #6 : "A musician or ensemble ... is notable if it meets any one of the following criteria: Contains at least one member who was once a part of or later joined a band that is otherwise notable"; you can see the membership of this band is comprised of Korel Tunador, current member of The Goo Goo Dolls, Nick Lucero, a member of Queens of the Stone Age, and Tanya Haden, sister of Petra Haden, who has also played with the Silversun Pickups. The albums were produced by Ben Mumphrey, producer of Frank Black of The Pixies' album, "Devil's Workshop," and Scott Benzel of Machines of Loving Grace. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jchristie7 (talk • contribs).  (Edited 7/20 for emphasis) - Jchristie7 20:47, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep per Jchristie7. Bearian 01:39, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep per JChristie7. He seems to be one of the borderline-cases, but as he seems to be quite creative and knows lots of people it can be expected that he is going to become more notable in the future. His press page seems also to confirm at least some notability. -- ExpImp talk con 19:55, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * While I agree with ExImp, I also prefer to stick to the letter of the law. (Call me a purist.) After re-reading all of the above I agree with Jersyko (if I understood him correctly). The notability is not in question; just verifiability. However, one can see that the article's claims of affiliation with notable musicians are true and sourced, satisfying both WP:Music and WP:V . Sufficient grounds for keeping this article according to Wikipedia's own policies on the issue. Jchristie7 22:04, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I like Wikipedia for the discussion of content changes, that people actually talk about what is the problem, not just sticking to the law. :) -- ExpImp talk con 20:50, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Good point! :) I guess I was just saying that I appreciate your points of view, but also feel, like Jersyko, that the article's validity can end with verifiability, as notability is already satisfied according to WP:Music #6. Jchristie7 00:33, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete Search engine results return a lot of myspace and youtube videos, insufficient for establishing notablity. There are no hints of whether he's won any awards, sold a gold certified record or entered any charts. Doesn't satisfy WP:MUSIC. If he really was a member of a notable band, he ought to be redirected to that, instead of having his own article.--Kylohk 11:00, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * WP:Music doesn't say he needs a gold record or charted, or to be "part of" a notable band. WP:Music says: "A musician or ensemble ... is notable if it meets any one of the following criteria: #6 Contains at least one member who was once a part of or later joined a band that is otherwise notable. " The key phrase is "any one of" the following criteria, not "all of the following criteria" or "two of the following," etc. Level of fame (gold records, awards, etc.) is not the issue. The notability of this is satisfied according to the exact requirement of WP:Music. Furthermore, you can see that the artist's associations with these musicians exist in articles for the Goo Goo Dolls, Queens of the Stone Age, Silversun Pickups, etc. These associations are not disputed. UK Radio Station Jchristie7 14:05, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete as per nom Harlowraman 11:01, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep per JChristie7 Pata1 19:09, 22 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.