Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Paul Birchard (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Consensus that a WP:HEY by has met notability for this subject. (non-admin closure) Britishfinance (talk) 19:36, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

Paul Birchard
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Article subject does not meet Wikipedia's notability guidelines. Subject is a minor and entirely unknown actor. Subject has never had "significant coverage" in reliable sources that are independent of the subject.

First link to the NYTimes.com is broken and goes nowhere. In the second source, his name is mentioned along with the rest of the play ensemble in a very short review from 2010. The third source is an obituary of an obscure lecturer. Finally, the fourth source is a link to a profile of his son. Taken together, there is nothing notable about this collection of citations.

A search of the subject's name on IMDB returns numerous Paul Birchards – one would be hard-pressed to know which of these corresponds to the Paul Birchard listed here.

A search of the article subject's name on Google primarily reveals URLs to the subject's personal homepage.

Article subject seems to have a well-known son by the name of Hudson Mohawke, but this does not entitle subject to having a Wikipedia page. I note that Mohawke's Wikipedia page has a line about Paul Birchard being his father and links to Birchard's Wikipedia page. This is circuitous.

Do we propose that the parents of all notable musicians should have their own Wikipedia pages?

Finally, I note that there are over 9 million actors and crew members listed on IMDB. I fail to see how appearing on this database meets Wikipedia's general notability guidelines.Nonmerci33 (talk) 10:35, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. North America1000 09:02, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. North America1000 09:03, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Scotland-related deletion discussions. North America1000 09:03, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 11:35, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Theatre-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 11:35, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 11:36, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Radio-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 11:37, 27 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete - I don't see too much coverage and content is not well referenced, which means the creator may be associated to the person. Should someone improve the article, keep only the referenced content and find more coverage, perhaps it can be reconsidered. His 2019 Role as Ernest Hemingway, might get him some additional coverage in the future. Expertwikiguy (talk) 02:11, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete. The NY Times article does not mention Birchard, and a search of the NY Times archive does not retrieve anything. The other sources do not give very significant coverage of Birchard.  It appears that his acting roles have been minor characters.  The football song seems to be the only really interesting thing, and it was just one song that does not appear to have been a top Billboard 100 song.  As noted above, it is not even clear if all this information applies to a single Paul Birchard, or perhaps more than one. It has not been demonstrated that this person is notable. -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:28, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete The sourcing is not adequate enough to show notability.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:00, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment There is definitely more sourcing that can be added, from the British Newspaper Archive for example, and more productions which he has appeared in, in some of which he had lead roles. Many Wikipedia articles about actors seem to have been created based on what is in IMDB. That does not mean that IMDB is the only source - and it's clearly not a complete source, when it covers only screen appearances, not stage performances. It seems to have been a quick way to create articles (this one was created in 2006), and is not a reflection on the notability or otherwise of the subjects. I will try to find the time to add more sources and info to this article. RebeccaGreen (talk) 05:47, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
 * User:RebeccaGreen, you are such a good researcher. I wish you would use your skills to expand the articles of really notable stage actors instead of documenting the workaday careers of non-notable actors.You could start with people who have won Oliver awards in the West End and Tony Awards on Broadway.  Just a suggestion.  Happy editing!  -- Ssilvers (talk) 18:19, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Ssilvers, thank you for the compliment! However, I don't know that the actors I research are non-notable, until I research more. In the case of this person, I see TV, radio and cinema listings in newspapers from the 1990s and 2000s saying "Stars John Cusack and Paul Birchard" ; "Judi Dench, Susan Porrett, Susannah Morley, Paul Birchard, Sylvia Barter, Bill Nighy" ; "With Giles Havergal and Paul Birchard" . Of course, not all of the actors appearing in productions with definitely notable actors like Judi Dench, Bill Nighy and John Cusack will be notable themselves - but perhaps they will meet WP:NACTOR, with significant roles in multiple notable productions, and therefore merit a Wikipedia article, allowing others who come across their names in listings like the above to find out who they are/were. RebeccaGreen (talk) 07:04, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep I have added more sources and information, about him and about his career. I believe the evidence shows that he does meet WP:NACTOR. There are more digitised newspapers I can look through, so I may be able to find more reviews - and I have yet to look for sources for all the info that was already in the article (films, computer games, football song, etc). I will keep adding more, but perhaps and  would like to consider his career as shown now. No, he may not be a "really notable actor" who has won awards, but he has had significant roles in notable productions, and garnered good reviews. RebeccaGreen (talk) 13:56, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 78.26  (spin me / revolutions) 15:31, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep RebeccaGreen did work on the article and it is now a keep per WP:SNG. He meets WP:NACTOR has had significant roles in notable productions, and garnered reviews. Lightburst (talk) 17:48, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep Looks like an example of WP:HEY. XOR&#39;easter (talk) 19:50, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep is is a case of WP:HEY thanks to Rebecca. Wm335td (talk) 21:46, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep - I can see why deletion was proposed, but the recent improvements to the article indicate notability. Dunarc (talk) 23:39, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep - per recent improvements since nom. Passes WP:GNG per work and reliable sources.BabbaQ (talk) 01:22, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment: The Lead section mentions the role of "Bud", which is not even mentioned in the plot summary of "Sweet Bird of Youth" -- a bit part.  Ross is a supporting role in The Goat, or Who Is Sylvia?, which production was played at a regional theatre in Edinburgh.  Chuck is from a non-notable play.  I remain in the Delete column.  Rebecca did a good job writing an article about a work-a-day actor. It is a pity that she does not focus her efforts upon important actor bios -- Here is a list of musical theatre stubs. -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:47, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
 * That's your prerogative, . I do not read "significant roles" as "starring roles", as I think if it meant that, it would say so. Supporting roles can also be significant. The Wikipedia article about Sweet Bird of Youth only names three characters. Bud is one of the main male character's "old friends [who] call his bluff and see him for what he has become", and he helps with the (implied/actual) castration of Chance at the end. (By the way, I don't think the inhabitants of Edinburgh, the capital city of a country, would appreciate being called "regional".) RebeccaGreen (talk) 09:07, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Edinbugh is not a major theatre market, except for the Edinburgh International Festival and the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. The only really major theatre markets are West End and Broadway (and long-running UK and US national tours).  Everything else is regional, or local, if you prefer, or "off-something", including Paris, Berlin, Tokyo, Sydney, Toronto, Chicago, off-Broadway and all other theatre markets.  I agree that a supporting role "can be" significant, but it is not necessarily significant. -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:21, 5 November 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.