Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Paul Carrigan


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Cirt (talk) 20:10, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Paul Carrigan

 * – ( View  AfD  View  log  •   )

Fails WP:GNG and WP:PORNBIO. Epbr123 (talk) 00:53, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom.--TrustMeTHROW! 03:41, 31 January 2010 (UTC) Strike blocked sock contribution.  Ash (talk) 20:07, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep This is a terrible nomination, obviously no effort has been made to  check notability before raising for deletion in a drive against gay porn  stars. He was notable enough to act as himself in the spoof film Full  Frontal (2001). He directed over 30 porn films. He starred in over 250  published films (perhaps the most well known are Underground (1997 with  Jeff Stryker) and Three Brothers (1998)). As a director he created a  whole genre of gay porn wrestling films. Obviously the article needs  more references (few sources from the 1990s are on-line) but it is also  obvious that due to his impact on the adult film market, he meets  WP:ARTIST, WP:GNG, WP:PORNBIO and that there is every  prospect of reliable sources being found due to sheer size of his body  of work. Ash (talk) 07:56, 31 January  2010 (UTC)
 * There's no evidence of him passing WP:GNG, and he clearly doesn't pass WP:PORNBIO. He doesn't pass WP:ARTIST as  his work hasn't "been the subject of an independent book or  feature-length film, or of multiple independent periodical articles or  reviews". Epbr123 (talk) 10:30, 1  February 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you should take a break and have a nice cup of tea? I thought that being one of the  most prolific porn stars of his generation would make it pretty obvious  that he is notable for this reason alone. PORNBIO is a guide, not a  bible. If you need an award to add, start with his lead role in "The  Hills have Bi's", it was winner of Best Bi Picture & Best Sex Comedy  at the 1996 Gay Erotic Video Awards. Ash (talk) 12:56, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The films won the awards, not him. Do you have a reliable source that he was one of the  most prolific porn stars of his generation? Epbr123  (talk) 13:08, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The films are publications, they can be counted. How many people do you  think have more gay porn film roles than him? Please expect to wait at  least 24 hours if you have any more of these sorts of questions.  Ash (talk) 13:15, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Note:  This debate has been included in  the list  of Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions.   --  Ash (talk) 08:12, 31 January 2010  (UTC)
 * Note:  This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related  deletion discussions.  -- Ash (talk) 08:12, 31  January 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep per body of work that meets WP:ENT and WP:PORNBIO. Send to cleanup.   Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 01:21, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * How does he pass WP:ENT or WP:PORNBIO. Epbr123  (talk) 10:30, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Per career and significant roles, how can it possibly be  perceived that does he not?    Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 19:59, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Could you be more specific about how his career meets the notability  criteria? Epbr123 (talk) 20:10, 1  February 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps more helpful in discussiong your concerns if you could explain how you believe his career and significant  roles do not.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 20:37, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep. Per Ash, and WP:Pornbio - "Has made unique contributions to a  specific pornographic genre," This is simply yet another in roughly  20-30 recent AfD's against gay pornographic actors.  -- Banj e  b oi   11:36, 1 February 2010  (UTC)
 * Which of his contributions are unique? Epbr123 (talk) 11:49, 1 February  2010 (UTC)
 * There are very few comments on this page and only two attributed to Ash. I'll allow you to do your own work.  -- Banj e  b oi   12:21, 1 February 2010  (UTC)
 * Delete fails pornbio, bio, all of the relevant notability guidelines for people.Bali ultimate  (talk) 17:13, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete - fails pornbio and gng for me. I haven't seen any concrete evidence  that verifies his notability. Mainly arguments based on being prolific  which was rejected as a criteria when PORNBIO was being developed.  Morbidthoughts (talk) 16:04, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete. Absolutely no evidence has been advanced at this time to rebut the nominator's assertion that this article fails to meet the  general guideline for notability. Nothing has been done to meet the  requirements of the Biographies of living persons policy  in regard to sourcing. BLP is a core policy and not negotiable. [Yes,  this is a cut and paste.] Angus McLellan  (Talk) 18:09, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you for a cut & paste opinion, in this case you do not appear to be  basing your opinion on the sources actually included in this  article. Ash (talk) 14:19, 7 February  2010 (UTC)
 * Those aren't sources in the WP:N/WP:BLP sense. They support trivial assertions of fact. Angus  McLellan  (Talk) 14:31, 8 February 2010  (UTC)
 * Delete as above, in spite of the fact that the fellow's contributions in pornography are unique; everyone's DNA is unique,  after all. Mostly it's mixed in a cup by a prop specialist. Jack Merridew 08:13, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
 * What is the world was that supposed to mean?  Please, please (please!) tell me  that isn't a 2 Girls 1 Cup reference...  Stillwaterising (talk) 23:13, 8 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment there appears to be a recent rush of delete opinions either exclusively  based on PORNBIO or strongly based on it (from the names of the  contributors, likely to be a result of the link I included at  Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(people)). In this  case Carrigan is an established film director for the specialist genre  of erotic wrestling, please take that into account as PORNBIO is for  actors not directors. I would also like to point out how blunt a  criteria PORNBIO is by contrasting Corrigan's significant impact to the  field, and his notability for being the second most credited actor in  the history gay pornography, with  Christopher Ashlee who amazingly passes PORNBIO because he was once  named (along with seven other actors) in a group scene award in a 2009  Grabby but is notable for absolutely nothing else and has been  credited with just 2 not-particularly-notable films. Ash  (talk) 14:11, 8 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete the claim that he is "one of the most prolific porn stars of his generation" do not appear to be verifiable through any  reliable sources, nor has Carrigan himself apparently received any  significant coverage in any reliable, third-party sources. Only a few of  his roles have even managed to be verified, which could be seen as a  severe WP:BLP violation to associate him with other works and make  claims about his career without quality reliable sources. Despite what  some folk slike to claim, WP:BIO does NOT trump WP:N. If there  are no sources, there are no sources. Ash claims there may be offline  sources, but none have been produced. No objection to userifying until  such sources are found, but as is, it should be deleted. --   Collectonian  (talk ·  contribs) 18:37, 8 February 2010  (UTC)
 * Please do not misrepresent my statement. I stated above that "there is every prospect of reliable sources being found due to sheer  size of his body of work". It may not have been your intent, but  your phrasing reads like an allegation that I was faking the existence  of sources. I encourage you to consider the options explained in WP:ATD, particularly as I suggest that the current level of sources in the article are enough to avoid deletion as being unsourced (not that this is ever a good sole reason to delete as we would automatically delete all stub articles). Ash (talk) 00:46, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep I find that 250+ (or 265+) acting credits and 30 director credits to be sufficient in establishing a notable  career. --Stillwaterising (talk) 23:02, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete: I was unfamiliar with WP:pornbio, so I've had a little read through:
 * The films he was in won the awards, not him, so fail.
 * No mention of nominations, fail.
 * Is not a Playboy playmate, fail.
 * Hasn't started a trend, nor starred in an iconic, groundbreaking or blockbuster feature, nor is in the hall of fame, fail.
 * Has only featured ONCE in mainstream media, fail. Ryan 4314   (talk) 15:33, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.