Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Paul Kimball


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. (Non-administrator closure.) Northamerica1000(talk) 05:03, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

Paul Kimball

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Does not meet WP:AUTHOR or WP:FILMMAKER, appears to be an article written by a COI account. All the titles in the "Media" section are linked to YouTube videos, and "Redstar Books" is Kimball himself. LuckyLouie (talk) 11:54, 27 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Obviously written by the subject themselves or someone connected to them. Reads like a resume and I'd be surprised if there is anything verifiable available. General rule of thumb, if notability cannot be established beyond primary sources, should be deleted. Too many articles end up getting kept these days based on primary sources alone. Laval (talk) 14:22, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Nova Scotia-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:38, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:38, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Paranormal-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:38, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:38, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:38, 27 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment Not every source needs to be considered for notability. Primary sources are acceptable on Wikipedia, see WP:PRIMARY. Not every source in the article is primary. Sources for WP:GNG notability include Halifax Daily News, EastLink TV, Coast to Coast AM - likely more. COI has not been established, but even then it's not a reason to delete. It does read like a resume and marketing and needs help from an experienced Wikipedian. The alternative is punish the newbie alienating them from Wikipedia (pun intended). -- Green Cardamom (talk) 02:52, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Coast to coast is clearly unreliable (famous for it), and it is being used as a primary source here. This is a borderline advertisement for his new show. I don't see any independent coverage from secondary sources on EastLink TV.  IRWolfie- (talk) 09:27, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
 * EastLink TV is in-depth coverage by a reliable secondary source, acceptable under WP:GNG. Coast to Coast is a reliable for determining the popularity of a UFO expert, in fact it is one of the most reliable sources on that question. It is unreliable for other things - reliability is within the context of the fact being checked. I don't see it as primary, he is a guest on the show (unless he works there or has some connection to the station). -- Green Cardamom (talk) 15:51, 28 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep and solicit assistance from experienced editors to clean up. Candleabracadabra (talk) 04:50, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
 * You have not provided a rationale to keep the article. Would you like to clarify, IRWolfie- (talk) 09:27, 28 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete No significant coverage in reliable, independent secondary sources. Fails WP:ANYBIO and FRINGE. IRWolfie- (talk) 09:27, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Did you look for sources? I'm finding plenty of coverage in reliable independent sources for this documentary filmmaker. Candleabracadabra (talk) 12:34, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Don't just link me to a google search. If you want to claim GNG pick a specific source. For example, the NYT piece doesn't actually give any realy coverage of Kimball, it just says, "The last of his friends to whom I spoke was Paul Kimball, a filmmaker who lives in Nova Scotia. He met Tonnies online about a decade ago; they corresponded for six years before meeting in person, when Kimball came to Kansas City to interview Tonnies for a documentary. They ended up becoming close, even collaborating on a play (swapping drafts via e-mail) that was staged at the Boulder International Fringe Festival. " The rest is about them talking together and says some things he said, this is trivial coverage. IRWolfie- (talk) 21:57, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

$2.95 - Daily Times - Aug 22, 2004 "I think the documentary puts Aztec in a positive light," Ramsey said. ... County's high desert landscape and film producer Paul Kimball telling the story of Aztec. Water tunnel documentary is available‎ Stevens co-wrote the series with Paul Kimball, a documentary filmmaker who grew up in Dartmouth and has established a reputation as one of the country's ... Cyberspace When You're Dead - NYTimes.com‎ The last of his friends to whom I spoke was Paul Kimball, a filmmaker who lives in ... when Kimball came to Kansas City to interview Tonnies for a documentary. $2.95 - Daily Times - Mar 20, 2004 ... alien life on CNN to change their opinions, said Paul Kimball, producer and director of two UFO documentaries, "Do You Believe in Majic" and "Aztec: 1948. Tonight'sTV; Complete daily listings in Spectator TV‎ Filmmaker Paul Kimball's one-hour documentary looks into the existence of a secret agency called Majestic 12, which some believe was created to cover up the ... Candleabracadabra (talk) 12:36, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Sources include:
 * Daily Times, The : Aztec to premiere UFO documentary / Film...‎
 * Halifax News Net - Oct 16, 2009
 * New York Times - Jan 5, 2011
 * Daily Times, The : UFOs: Symposium to 'unveil the truth'‎
 * The Spectator - Apr 28, 2004
 * The NYT story mentions Kimball only as a friend of the subject of the story. The others are variously local news about a UFO film screening and a mention in a local "Halloween" themed filler story. Hardly the serious, in-depth coverage required to meet WP:FILMMAKER.- LuckyLouie (talk) 15:04, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The NYT stories doesn't just mention Kimball. It has paragraphs about their relationship, collaboration, the authors discussion with Kimball etc. And this is just one of the sources noted above. Here is the actual content:
 * "The last of his friends to whom I spoke was Paul Kimball, a filmmaker who lives in Nova Scotia. He met Tonnies online about a decade ago; they corresponded for six years before meeting in person, when Kimball came to Kansas City to interview Tonnies for a documentary. They ended up becoming close, even collaborating on a play (swapping drafts via e-mail) that was staged at the Boulder International Fringe Festival.


 * Among their shared interests, it turns out, was the relationship among technology, consciousness and mortality. Their play, based on a science-fiction story Tonnies had written in college, involves two women who turn out not to be, strictly speaking, creatures of organic matter: one is an artificial-intelligence program, the other a human consciousness uploaded into a form that could survive a centuries-long space journey. The very title of Tonnies’s Posthuman Blues blog, Kimball points out, hints at ambivalence about these subjects. But that was the place, he says, where his generally private friend “revealed himself,” post by post. The fact that the blog persists, in public, is what makes it distinct from, say, a journal Kimball owns that belonged to his grandfather and that has been read by perhaps 20 people.


 * The day before we spoke, Kimball continued, he had linked to an old Posthuman Blues post on his Facebook page, seeking reactions from his own online circle. “So I’m still having this conversation” with his friend Tonnies, he told me, “even though he’s been dead for more than a year.” Eventually, Kimball added, such situations may be routine. “We’re entering a world where we can all leave as much of a legacy as George Bush or Bill Clinton. Maybe that’s the ultimate democratization,” he said. “It gives all of us a chance at immortality.”


 * After talking to Kimball, I ended up watching a couple of interview clips of Tonnies on YouTube. In one, he discussed “transhumanism,” the techno-scientific quest to transcend the traditional limits of the human animal, death included, whether through merging with machines or fiddling with our genes. Skeptics or opponents of transhumanism are missing the point that it’s well underway, he argued: medicine is transhuman, in that it thwarts mortality. While I didn’t find this wholly convincing, I will concede that it was interesting to find myself in a position to listen to his arguments at all. " Candleabracadabra (talk) 15:22, 28 August 2013 (UTC)


 * WP:NOTINHERITED. The subject of the NYT article might be notable, but not everyone he knew or collaborated with is automatically notable. - LuckyLouie (talk) 15:42, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
 * There is no inheritance, the NYT article doesn't have to be entirely about Kimball, see WP:GNG: "Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention but it need not be the main topic of the source material." -- Green Cardamom (talk) 15:54, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
 * If it's a passing mention then it wouldn't contribute, IRWolfie- (talk) 21:53, 4 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep Per WP:GNG, multiple reliable sources cover the topic in depth enough to write at least a stub article with. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 15:56, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:41, 7 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete lack of in depth coverage required to pass the GNG. Ridernyc (talk) 00:49, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep Per WP:GNG, "in-depth" is not a requirement and is different from "significant"... NOT the same thing. Enough sources speak toward the individual and or his works in enough detail to support a short start class article.  Schmidt,  Michael Q. 19:08, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The coverage in sources is trivial and the individual has not been the subject of the articles, contrary to WP:BASIC: "A person is presumed to be notable if he or she has been the subject of multiple published secondary sources which are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject." IRWolfie- (talk) 15:26, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.