Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Paul Smith (politician)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Doesn't meet POLITICIAN, nor the GNG, as there is a lack of independent, reliable sources. As stated in POLITICIAN, being a candidate does not confer automatic notability without the RS to back it up. Ged UK  15:13, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Paul Smith (politician)

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Lack of independent reliable sources. Not notable. Fails WP:POLITICIAN and BIO Kittybrewster  &#9742;  08:24, 8 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Strong keep as creator: he actually meets WP:POLITICIAN since he is a former city council member of Bristol City Council, and WP:POLITICIAN states that; "Generally speaking [...] members of the main citywide government or council of a major metropolitan city [are likely to meet this criterion]." Although he's a former member, he is still notable since notability is not temporary. Kindest regards, SpitfireTally-ho! 08:42, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Brighton is not a "major metropolitan city". As such, the paragraph in question requires significant coverage of the subject in multiple reliable sources. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 10:04, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * It's, uh, Bristol City Council. Kind regards, SpitfireTally-ho! 10:06, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * *facepalm* I blame the weather. And the lack of caffeine. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 10:20, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete fails WP:POLITICIAN to give the full quote that Spitfire omitted to give above: "Major local political figures who have received significant press coverage.[7] Generally speaking, mayors are likely to meet this criterion, as are members of the main citywide government or council of a major metropolitan city." Smith hasn't received any significant press coverage. Not only that but the only refs in the article are websites from his own party in other words there are no reliable secondary sources at all, let alone the type of coverage that would qualify him for an article. Valenciano (talk) 11:18, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * See Alboran's comment below regarding press coverage. Regards, SpitfireTally-ho! 17:59, 8 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete - members of even large British local authorities rarely receive significant press coverage; the statement that they are likely to in WP:POLITICIAN is more relevant to U.S. politics. The key point in WP:POLITICIAN is that they must have received significant press coverage.  If Smith is elected to Parliament, then he will be notable. Warofdreams talk 13:30, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep He's a former member of the main citywide government or council of a major metropolitan city, he's running for election to parliament representing that city and stands a good chance of winning. He is the recipient of local press coverage (see for example these searches ), was likely the recipient of further press coverage that we don't have easy online access to when he was a councillor (the whole of the 1990s), and he will no doubt be the recipient of further and more significant press coverage in the run up to the election, regardless of whether he is eventually elected. Alboran (talk) 15:19, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * A good chance of winning? Well we're not a crystal ball but even if we were, people who are actually putting money on the result rate Labour's chances very poorly Valenciano (talk) 20:11, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Bristol is not major. If he is elected, the article should be created; he won't be. Kittybrewster  &#9742;  15:37, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The UK's eighth most populous city, and England's sixth, not major? Regards, SpitfireTally-ho! 17:59, 8 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 13:55, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete due to not meeting WP:BIO or WP:POLITICIAN. Council leaders are deemed notable, simply being a member would need more than.... simply being a member.  One of a great many PPC articles desperately and wrongly relying on Cllr status to justify their campaign page (see Heidi Alexander, Kay Barnard, Mark Formosa, etc)--Saalstin (talk) 16:55, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Uhm, the guidlines mentions nothing about distinction between council leaders and council members, apart from, that is, to say that coucil members are notable. Kind regards, SpitfireTally-ho! 17:59, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, I was referring to community consensus as I've seen it in POLITICIAN debates. What the guideline actually says is that members of a metropolitan council might be notable, and Bristol does not meet even the most generous description of that.  He's really rather more 'notable' for his PPC candidacy, which is, in our terms, distinctly non-notable. --Saalstin (talk) 19:05, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm, can you provide links as to where you have seen this consensus formed? You keep on saying that the page should be deleted as he's a PPC candidate, although you are right that being a PPC candidate does not make one notable, nor does being a PPC candidate immediately make one non-notable, as you seem to imply above (i.e. "He's really rather more 'notable' for his PPC candidacy, which is, in our terms, distinctly non-notable."). As to the status of Bristol as a major metropolitan city, please see my comment above to Alboran/Kittybrewster, and bear in mind that a Metropolis is different (I believe?) to a major metropolitan city, which is a major city located in a Metropolitan area. Even if you argued that Bristol had to be a Metropolis, it probably still passes. Kind regards, SpitfireTally-ho! 19:55, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * No Spitfire, the guidelines in WP:POLITICIAN don't say that council members are automatically notable it says "Major local political figures who have received significant press coverage" are notable. A couple of routine mentions in the local press - none of which seem to be in depth - don't cut the mustard. Valenciano (talk) 20:11, 8 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete. WP:POLITICIAN is a bit vague on "major local political figures", but that doesn't matter - the criterion is "Major local political figures who have received significant press coverage." Until you can find significant press coverage (I couldn't), it doesn't matter how low you set the bar for "major local political figures" - the second part of the notability criterion hasn't been met. Chris Neville-Smith (talk) 20:37, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment. A few entries below this one on today's page is a proposed Deletion of Tom Walsh (Wyoming politician), which was "speedily withdrawn" because "a state legislator is always notable".  Wyoming has a population of 550k and 90 legislators.  Bristol has a population of 440k and 70 legislators.  I tend to think both are borderline cases and being a major party candidate in the forthcoming general election swings the balance in favour of keep.  --Sussexonian (talk) 21:25, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * UK councils, however, have far less power than a US state does. WP:POLITICIAN allows for members of a national, provincial or state legislature. If the UK, I would talk that to mean the Commons and Lords, the parliaments/assemblies of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, the Greater London Assembly, and the regional assemblies / English Parliament is that ever happens. I would certainly not apply it to local councils unless their power was beefed up a lot. Chris Neville-Smith (talk) 21:47, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep until election -- I think that we have to put up with having campaign biographies of PPCs in WP, with a view to deleting them wholesale after the next election. This was a safe Tory seat, but the figures at the last election were 21k/15k/14k, making this potentially a three-way marginal.  Peterkingiron (talk) 22:48, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * At best, that is an argument for Article incubation. The problem is that he does not meet the minimum criteria (and never did). Kittybrewster  &#9742;  23:12, 8 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Redirect to Bristol West (UK Parliament constituency). Members of a nation's legislature are inherently notable, candidates for legislature generally are not notable enough for their own article, and municipal legislators are not either, no matter what city we're talking about. Mandsford (talk) 17:02, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete. Non notable. No reliable sources. Won't win the seat he's contesting. Szzuk (talk) 11:20, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.