Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Paul Street (director)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 21:04, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Paul Street (director)

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Unsourced biography since 2009 with no RS. Was probably an autobiography when created (main editors are User:Paulstreet1 and User:Filmstreetster). Natg 19 (talk) 18:34, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Actors and filmmakers,  and United Kingdom. Natg 19 (talk) 18:34, 29 February 2024 (UTC)


 * For as much as it counts for an IP editor to contribute here, and to repeat what I said at WP:COIN: the things they've worked on are notable (mainly commercials, so not enough to have Wikipedia articles about them) but notability isn't inheritable. The two films they claim to have directed don't have articles, which is a clue to how notable they are, but non-notability isn't inheritable either. However, I'm not seeing an actual claim of notability for the subject himself – just for the things he worked on. And I'm not seeing any useful third-party neutral reliable sources that back up his claims to have directed the commercials in question, let alone that he having worked on them makes him notable in himself. I would, were my opinion to count here, advise deletion. 81.187.192.168 (talk) 18:40, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Awards used to be BTAA, could have been a misspelling or autocorrect, plenty of D&AD awards for this 125.236.143.191 (talk) 04:34, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
 * It would be helpful if you declared your conflict of interest on this matter – both here and when making changes to the article itself. 81.187.192.168 (talk) 12:12, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
 * No conflict, just correcting citations, due to having seen Street's "Safehouse" on Tubi, I googled Paul Street and ended on this page and seeing it ready for deletion. 125.236.143.191 (talk) 20:21, 5 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Delete No indication of significance. A WP:BEFORE finds nothing. Fails WP:SIGCOV, WP:BIO.   scope_creep Talk  18:46, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails NFILMMAKER. For example, subject claims to have won a BAFTA Craft award for a BMW commercial in '95. Even BAFTA doesn't list past winners of the TV craft awards and Wayback Machine doesn't have anything. If BAFTA itself won't verify that they awarded someone, we can't presume any notability, can we? BAFTA doesn't list any director awards for TV craft in 1995 all the way through 1998 when he says he won two of them. Searching BAFTA awards, it seems no one named Paul Street ever won an award from them nor did his commercial "scales" ever win anything. It seems an odd thing to falsify.  Chris Troutman  ( talk )  19:23, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete No indication of significance, unsourced BLP that makes unverifiable claims and does not seem to meet NFILMMAKER. nf utvol (talk) 19:17, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I have added citations from Shoot Online as this shows a clear timeline of Street's work, including being a key force at A Band Apart among others. 125.236.143.191 (talk) 04:38, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 20:14, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 20:14, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete No indication of notability, and extremely little in the way of sources, even non-RS. BubbaJoe123456 (talk) 20:16, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails WP:ANYBIO, fails WP:FILMMAKER. Despite my best efforts, I couldn't find a source that confirms the awards Street has supposedly won. Mooonswimmer 21:12, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I have added some award citations, very easy to find actually, 125.236.143.191 (talk) 04:36, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment Can we put this on hold? While the previous original version of this article seems to have lacked proper refs & some of the claims are unsupportable this person does seem to be a well-known director in the UK, especially regarding commercials. See this article from The Independent: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/easy-rider-rides-again-1189241.html. Shearonink (talk) 02:38, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
 * One mere mention, which tells us nothing about the subject, and the subject still isn't notable. Please read WP:REALPROBLEM.  Chris Troutman  ( talk )  14:28, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Please read [An essay] which isn't a guideline or policy or a part of MOS etc. Nothing against essays but they're opinions and in my opinion this person is possibly notable, that's all. If one does a search for "steve mcqueen tv ad ford puma paul street" one gets over 1 million hits. Are they all valid and bolster Street's notability? Of course not, but we are dealing with a person who does not work in a necessarily high-profile part of the entertainment business. He directs commercials in the UK...when the McQueen/Puma ad came out it was very noticeable in its home country and is referred to in McQueen's WP article as a precursor to another Ford ad in 2004. Shearonink (talk) 07:27, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
 * All of which is evidence that the McQueen advert is notable, but notability is not inheritable. It’s perfectly possible — normal, in fact — for something to be notable but the people who worked on it not to be. Perhaps we should have an article on the commercial. 81.187.192.168 (talk) 09:17, 5 March 2024 (UTC)


 * I have added some citations that link directly 125.236.143.191 (talk) 04:39, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Those links are all either only tangentially related, incidental references, or are behind paywalls that hide the content which may, or may not, support notability claims. Even with the additional citations it's tough to establish notability here... If a commercial that he worked on is significant and notable, then maybe it should have its own page, but that doesn't necessarily mean he is notable. nf utvol (talk)


 * Comment: I think that there is a good discussion to be had here about whether or not commercials could make their director/creator notable. I just don't know if AfD is the right place to have this, given that this is going to need a pretty nuanced take. If we look at it from a short or feature film perspective then coverage for a commercial would count towards notability. However at the same time commercials aren't the same thing as a short or feature film and the advertising and business world is kind of tricky notability-wise because of the sheer amount of non-usable coverage (notability-wise) that gets pumped out. This is why I think this needs to be discussed elsewhere. I don't know if the article would survive but this AfD does bring up some questions that need to be discussed. I suppose I'll start this at WP:NBIO? ReaderofthePack (formerly Tokyogirl79)  (｡◕‿◕｡)  15:41, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Started a discussion here. ReaderofthePack (formerly Tokyogirl79)  (｡◕‿◕｡)  16:06, 5 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Delete. I still maintain that we need to have a discussion about what is needed for a commercial director to achieve notability independent of the commercials. That said, Street does not currently pass any notability guidelines for directors. His feature films are not notable and do not seem to have gained any coverage in places Wikipedia would see as reliable, nor are the awards major enough to give notability. Commercial-wise, I could only find coverage for the Easy Rider commercial and in a situation like this, it would be better to have an article for the singular work as opposed to the director - however offhand I don't see where that is independently notable enough for an article either so it's kind of a moot point. As far as him working with notable people or businesses, notability is WP:NOTINHERITED by Street working with them - it all boils down to coverage, which is lacking. I couldn't even really find much routine coverage for which business/advertising-related articles are kind of known for getting, which is also kind of telling. ReaderofthePack (formerly Tokyogirl79)  (｡◕‿◕｡)  16:18, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
 * If there are no good sources, I don't think you'll get anyone to agree with you there... SportingFlyer  T · C  20:19, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm not arguing for notability for Street. My thought process is basically this: Should NFILM or NCREATIVE come into play with commercial directors or should their notability only be judged via NBUSINESS guidelines? I don't think they have the exact same freedom that a feature film director does, but it's also not like they're a cog in an assembly line putting together a product - it does seem like they have some input on the creative process. Also, while a commercial is not the same as a film, what about those cases where a commercial gains a lot of coverage? Let's say that a commercial director creates 2-3 commercials that are notable enough for their own articles? By NFILM and NCREATIVE guidelines that would make them notable enough for their own article, even if the sources for the commercials only really mention them in passing. Again, none of this is going to help this article remain on Wikipedia, but I do think that a more general discussion over commercial directors should take place. ReaderofthePack (formerly Tokyogirl79)  (｡◕‿◕｡)  13:47, 6 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Delete fails WP:GNG and reads promotionally. The promotional part can be cleaned up, the GNG failure cannot. SportingFlyer  T · C  20:19, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete per above -especially WP:GNG - but also WP:TNT. How this disaster survived into 2024 is a mystery to me. Bearian (talk) 15:39, 6 March 2024 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.