Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Payoneer (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Overall consensus is that the article meets CORDEPH as well as GNG so closing as keep (non-admin closure) – Davey 2010 Talk 00:33, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

Payoneer
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

This was kept in 2011, but think our standards for companies, particularly internet-based companies, are much higher now. The only actually substantial RS is the Inc42article, and it reads like using a minor announcement as an excuse for an advertorial.

It's grown some since 2011--it now has 7,000employees, but that still makres it a rather small company. Most of the awards listed on its wesite are awardsfor "fastest growing". I think it's excellent that companies list them on their web site, because the intrinsic actual meaning of such an award is not yet notable. helpfully removed the promotionalism, but it is still not notable.  DGG ( talk ) 16:16, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I think the nominator meant 700 employees, not 7,000. 86.17.222.157 (talk) 17:18, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. North America1000 23:49, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. North America1000 23:49, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. North America1000 23:49, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

 References
 * Comment – Holding off on !voting for the time being. Below are some bylined articles written by staff writers that have been published in independent, reliable sources. North America1000 00:02, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Washington Post
 * The Economic Times
 * Deccan Herald
 * New York Post
 * International Business Times
 * The "Washington post" article is actually their reprint from telechrunch.com, with telechrunch's 2008 copyright on it. To tell the truth, this really surprised me. I never realized they did this.
 * I do not consider ET a RS for N, and the article proves it, for  in fact is just quoting the company's executive.
 * Deccan Hreald just the same, quoting another of the company's execs.
 * NY Post is not a RS for business news or anything else--it's essentially a right wing tabloid.
 * IBT is the same company exec that the Deccan Herald made a pretense of interviewing    DGG ( talk ) 02:10, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The fact that The Washington Post published a TechCrunch article demonstrates that The Washington Post considers TechCrunch to be a reliable source. North America1000 02:26, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
 * That is one way of looking at it, but the more obvious interpretation is that the WP makes no attempt to follow proper journalistic standards in its coverage of internet companies.  DGG ( talk ) 06:43, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
 * That the editors of The Washington Post decided that the techcrunch article was suitable for republication in their paper only increases the strength of the WP:RS claim. --  1Wiki8 ........................... (talk) 20:20, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
 * This reminds me of your claim in a previous AFD that a Forbes contributor blog would count as an RS because Forbes wouldn't damage their brand name that way - David Gerard (talk) 09:14, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
 * This discussion is about Payoneer. In the unrelated discussion regarding a Forbes source, I also struck the source later on per the discussion there, and made no claim whatsoever of "Forbes wouldn't damage their brand name that way". It's entirely unclear how you came to this conclusion, but you're wrong; nothing of the sort was stated by me. When commenting about other users, please try to present an accurate account of actual matters that occurred. Better yet, please try to focus on the actual topic at hand. North America1000 10:44, 15 October 2016 (UTC)


 * leaning delete - the sources are entirely unconvincing; is there any coverage of the company that's genuine third-party news coverage, that doesn't come from a promotional outreach? I also looked through the edit history; the sheer number of SPAs that the company threw at the article just happened to have created an account to edit this article does not speak well to organic notability - David Gerard (talk) 20:33, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep There has been significant coverage in many third party independent sources, particularly in top tier media  reliable sources, and it certainly  measures up to the criteria for WP:CORPDEPTH.  The article should be expanded on, and it should not be a marketing piece, but it should be a Wiki articleVeggies 2 (talk) 00:19, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.  The article notes: "Research firm Pitchbook Inc. estimates Payoneer is valued at about $880 million after the most recent funding." The article further notes: "Payoneer’s technology moves money for businesses in one country working with those in other countries and handles the regulatory and currency issues that come with international transactions. While many payments startups rely on the existing credit card infrastructure, Payoneer has built its own connectors directly into banks, allowing recipients to get money deposited in their accounts and avoiding the transaction fees that come with plastic. Payoneer’s technology allows small- and medium-sized companies to pay and manage invoices over the internet rather than using checks and paper. Amazon.com Inc., Google, Airbnb Inc. and Getty Images use Payoneer to pay en mass the businesses, proprietors and freelancers using their platforms. About half of Payoneer’s revenue comes from bulk payout. When a consumer buys products on Amazon’s marketplace from independent merchants or retailers, the e-commerce giant receives the payment. Using Payoneer’s software, Amazon can then at once send the sellers the money they’re due in their local currency. In any given month, Amazon pays merchants from more than 100 countries through Payoneer, Galit said. This is an important part of Amazon’s e-commerce business, with marketplace sales making up about half of all orders."  The article notes: "Payoneer has raised $180m from venture capital investors, making the Israeli-turned-US cross-border payments provider the subject of one of the biggest funding rounds by a financial technology company this year. The company was founded in 2005 by Yuval Tal, a former Israeli special forces officer, who is its president. It has its headquarters in New York, a large research centre in Tel Aviv and has clients in more than 200 countries, including many of the biggest internet marketplaces such as Amazon, Airbnb, Google, Getty Images and UpWork. Technology Crossover Ventures, the California-based investor, is leading the latest fundraising round for the company, taking the total it has raised to about $280m. TCV is buying newly issued shares alongside Susquehanna Growth Equity, the Pennsylvania-based investor, and offering to buy out existing shareholders." The article provides detailed information about the company, including negative information: "Payoneer was linked by Dubai police to the incident in which Hamas commander Mahmoud al-Mabhouh was killed in 2010 in that the company was said to have provided pre-paid credit cards to some of the team that carried out the murder, which was widely believed to be the work of Mossad, the Israeli overseas intelligence service. Dubai Police did not release further details."  The article notes: "As the Web makes it easier for U.S. companies to hire workers from Bangkok to Berlin, figuring out how to pay them is an increasingly pressing issue. Payoneer, an Israeli start-up now based in New York, aims to fill this niche in the international money-transfer market. Payoneer enables businesses to pay freelancers, contract workers or salaried employees with a prepaid MasterCard card that payees can use to withdraw cash from an A.T.M. and as a debit card in stores and online. Greylock Partners, Crossbar Capital and Carmel Ventures have invested $14 million in Payoneer. ... So far, Payoneer has helped 200 companies sending money to 120,000 cardholders, 85 percent of whom are outside the United States. Many of the companies that use Payoneer offer payees several options, like PayPal or wire transfer, and those who live abroad often choose Payoneer."  The article notes: "'I established the company in New York in 2005,' says Yuval Tal, Payoneer's founder, who served until 2011 as its CEO and now is its president and director of business development. 'We began by serving American kids who come to Israel on programs like Taglit-Brithright, Hillel or with the Jewish Agency. We provided them with debit cards they could use to pay for things in Israel. ' Payoneer's client base has long since expanded far beyond this core group. Today its technology is mainly for people with a long list of payment recipients, or what is known in Internet parlance as affiliate networks. ... Payoneer also has a product for very-small size service providers and a service that allows customers to open a virtual American bank account. This means that a small client in China can use Payoneer to offer their services on Amazon or another American website and receive payments to cover expenses, all in dollars. ... Payoneer is a mature startup. Some 180 of the company's 250 employees are located in Israel, with the rest working in the United States and Gibraltar. The company raised $22 million in capital in two rounds, the second in 2008. Payoneer hasn't needed external funding since. Tal claims the company's been profitable since 2010."</li> <li> The article notes: "Israeli payments platform developer Payoneer is buying U.S. startup Armor Payments, it announced on Tuesday. Armor develops a system for guaranteeing payment security in business-to-business transactions. Payoneer declined to say how much it will pay for Armor, whose operations and seven employees are to be folded into Payoneer. Payoneer develops a platform enabling customers and businesses to make payments from different countries and in different currencies. It stated that the acquisition will reduce the suspicion and uncertainty when its customers make purchases from unfamiliar businesses."</li> <li></li> <li></li> <li> The article notes: "Payoneer, a startup whose technology enables companies to pay their suppliers anywhere in the world, said on Wednesday it had raised $25 million in an investment round led by the U.S. private equity firm Susquehanna Growth Equity. Existing investors Carmel Ventures, Greylock IL and Vintage Venture Partners joined the round, the company said. Amir Goldman, managing director of Susquehanna Growth Equity, will join Payoneer’s board. ... Payoneer provides a payment platform that connects thousands of companies with millions of professionals and small business owners in some 200 countries. Already profitable, the company said it would use the new capital to expand into new markets and increase sales and marketing as well as to pursue acquisitions. The company was founded in New York, where it is headquartered, in 2005 by Yuval Tal, who served until 2011 as CEO and is now its president and director of business development."</li> <li> The article notes: "Employees at the Payoneer are still trying to understand what hit them: the Israeli startup company has faced a wave of unwanted publicity after Dubai police claimed that suspects in the assassination of Hamas commander Mahmoud al-Mabhouh used its credit card technology. Payoneer provides prepaid credit cards, which means holders can fill them with money and use them, without the card being tied to a standard bank account. Thirteen of the 27 suspects used prepaid MasterCards issued by MetaBank, a regional American bank, in order to purchase plane tickets and book hotel rooms, said the Dubai police. The police then tied MetaBank to Payoneer. It is still not clear how bad the publicity is. One source close to Payoneer said: 'All such publicity hurts,' but added that customers were unlikely to be deterred from buying the company's products."</li> <li> The article notes: "Payoneer, a US fintech company that helps businesses send and receive money across borders online, has raised $180 million (£141 million) in a Series E funding round. The cash comes from Technology Crossover Ventures (TCV), a Silicon Valley-headquartered VC fund that focuses on growth funding for established tech businesses. TCV has backed giants such as Facebook, Netflix, and Spotify. The funding round is double Payoneer's funding to date and takes its total raised to $270 million (£211 million). CEO Scott Galit wouldn't comment on the company's valuation but it's likely in the billions given the amount of equity doled out. Founded in 2005, Payoneer has two main parts to its business: helping small and medium-sized businesses make overseas payments online; and helping global tech giants like Amazon, Airbnb, and Google, to pay suppliers around the world."</li> <li> The article notes: "Israeli online payments solution company Payoneer Inc. has been selected by online retail giant Amazon Inc. to expand cross-border payment options to sellers from 24 countries who sell on marketplaces in the US, Spain, France, Italy, Germany and the UK. As a featured payment solution for select countries within Amazon Seller Central, Payoneer will provide a simple and convenient way for sellers from top markets including China, Japan and South Korea to receive their Amazon disbursements. In cooperation with Payoneer, Amazon now allows sellers to sign up for Payoneer directly from Amazon Seller Central. Upon Payoneer registration, sellers receive online accounts that can collect Amazon disbursements, and that provide access to these disbursements through local bank account withdrawal or through the use of a Payoneer MasterCard. This alliance marks the first time that Amazon has expanded Seller Central cross-border payment capabilities through alliance with an external payment solution. Payoneer was founded in 2005 by entrepreneur and investor Yuval Tal and has raised $90 million to date including $50 million in August. With 500 employees worldwide, the company is today headquartered in New York with its R&D center in Tel Aviv. Two years ago there were rumors that the company was planning an IPO at a company value of $700 million but in the end it chose a financing round of $25 million instead. Payoneer's investors include 83North, Carmel Ventures, Greylock, Vintage, Ping An and private investors such as Yuval Tal himself, Zohar Gilon, and others. Payoneer has been in the past chosen as one of 'Globes' most promising Israeli startups."</li> <li> The article notes: "Israeli digital payments company Payoneer has raised $180 million in growth equity financing from TCV (Technology CrossOver Ventures) with the participation of former investor Susquehanna Growth Equity. The financing includes $90 million for expanding the company while shareholders sold a stake worth a further $90 million. This is the largest-ever investment in an Israeli fintech company and the proceeds from the financing will be used to accelerate global growth and to enhance an already strong and debt-free balance sheet. Payoneer transforms the way businesses send and receive cross-border payments. The company was founded in 2005 in Israel by president Yuval Tal and former CTO Ben Yaniv Chechik and has raised $235 million to date including the latest financing round. Payoneer CEO Scott Galit said, “TCV shares our belief that we can make a difference by empowering entrepreneurs throughout the world by offering them tools and solutions to participate, compete and succeed in the global economy. TCV’s connections with fast growing e-commerce marketplaces, global brand-building expertise and its long-term investment philosophy are the perfect fit for Payoneer and will help us propel our growth in the years to come.” Payoneer is headquartered in New York and has its development office in Tel Aviv, which houses 560 of the company's 760 employees worldwide."</li> </ol>There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Payoneer to pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Cunard (talk) 04:17, 16 October 2016 (UTC) </li></ul>
 * Keep based on the reliable sources with significant coverage highlighted in this discussion already.  Advanced refutation to anyone claiming that news coverage mentioning or related to the multiple funding rounds of this company is not an indication of notability.  --  1Wiki8 ........................... (talk) 10:29, 16 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep – Meets WP:CORPDEPTH per a review of available sources, including those I listed above, and those provided by above. North America1000 10:39, 16 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep I am someone who edited this article and NO - I am not affiliated with it, do not have a stake in it or anything like that. I started editing Wikipedia only recently and have a business that has a need for the work Payoneer does, and in my research I realized that this company gets a good deal of public attention and news coverage. Take a look at the Google News page. Most of the rationale is already here above by other users, but I just wanted to be on record.  This company is definitely within the rights to be here. GeorgeRosen (talk) 02:30, 19 October 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.