Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Payoneer (3rd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy keep. Nominating 3 days after the last closure is damn right disruptive - If you disagree with the closure go to DRV, You don't just renominate and renominate!. (non-admin closure) – Davey 2010 Talk 21:22, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

Payoneer
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Another fintech with no encyclopedia notability. Coverage by standard popular media merely an exercise or once in a lifetime coverage any startup gets when they are funded. this is just Press nothing about depth of coverage. Everything is promotional and nothing else. No-notability of this organization. If we have to make a Wikipedia page for being an encyclopedia in this manner. wikipedia is not a portfolio or directory of such company. Light2021 (talk) 14:47, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. Regards, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga (talk &bull;&#32;mail) 14:54, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Internet-related deletion discussions. Regards, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga (talk &bull;&#32;mail) 14:54, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Regards, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga (talk &bull;&#32;mail) 14:54, 25 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep – Per the sources presented at the previous AfD discussion, which was closed three days ago as keep. It's disruptive to renominate an article this soon after a keep closure at AfD. North America1000 17:01, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep Nominating 3 days after the previous AfD was closed as "keep" is disruptive; a WP:TROUT to the nominator. Nothing has changed since the previous AfD. --Mark viking (talk) 23:07, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep – Sources have been presented on this previous AfD discussion, which was closed three days ago, and yes, the discussions have been had and not ignored as argued, and the people who voted to Keep have challenged the debate and have had the conversation. It is not right to continue the AfD just because someone felt it was not a correct outcome.  I have read and the articles and, yes, I have used some.  These are valid.  Please end this and keep. GeorgeRosen (talk) 17:22, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.  The article notes: "Research firm Pitchbook Inc. estimates Payoneer is valued at about $880 million after the most recent funding." The article further notes: "Payoneer’s technology moves money for businesses in one country working with those in other countries and handles the regulatory and currency issues that come with international transactions. While many payments startups rely on the existing credit card infrastructure, Payoneer has built its own connectors directly into banks, allowing recipients to get money deposited in their accounts and avoiding the transaction fees that come with plastic. Payoneer’s technology allows small- and medium-sized companies to pay and manage invoices over the internet rather than using checks and paper. Amazon.com Inc., Google, Airbnb Inc. and Getty Images use Payoneer to pay en mass the businesses, proprietors and freelancers using their platforms. About half of Payoneer’s revenue comes from bulk payout. When a consumer buys products on Amazon’s marketplace from independent merchants or retailers, the e-commerce giant receives the payment. Using Payoneer’s software, Amazon can then at once send the sellers the money they’re due in their local currency. In any given month, Amazon pays merchants from more than 100 countries through Payoneer, Galit said. This is an important part of Amazon’s e-commerce business, with marketplace sales making up about half of all orders."  The article notes: "Payoneer has raised $180m from venture capital investors, making the Israeli-turned-US cross-border payments provider the subject of one of the biggest funding rounds by a financial technology company this year. The company was founded in 2005 by Yuval Tal, a former Israeli special forces officer, who is its president. It has its headquarters in New York, a large research centre in Tel Aviv and has clients in more than 200 countries, including many of the biggest internet marketplaces such as Amazon, Airbnb, Google, Getty Images and UpWork. Technology Crossover Ventures, the California-based investor, is leading the latest fundraising round for the company, taking the total it has raised to about $280m. TCV is buying newly issued shares alongside Susquehanna Growth Equity, the Pennsylvania-based investor, and offering to buy out existing shareholders." The article provides detailed information about the company, including negative information: "Payoneer was linked by Dubai police to the incident in which Hamas commander Mahmoud al-Mabhouh was killed in 2010 in that the company was said to have provided pre-paid credit cards to some of the team that carried out the murder, which was widely believed to be the work of Mossad, the Israeli overseas intelligence service. Dubai Police did not release further details."  The article notes: "As the Web makes it easier for U.S. companies to hire workers from Bangkok to Berlin, figuring out how to pay them is an increasingly pressing issue. Payoneer, an Israeli start-up now based in New York, aims to fill this niche in the international money-transfer market. Payoneer enables businesses to pay freelancers, contract workers or salaried employees with a prepaid MasterCard card that payees can use to withdraw cash from an A.T.M. and as a debit card in stores and online. Greylock Partners, Crossbar Capital and Carmel Ventures have invested $14 million in Payoneer. ... So far, Payoneer has helped 200 companies sending money to 120,000 cardholders, 85 percent of whom are outside the United States. Many of the companies that use Payoneer offer payees several options, like PayPal or wire transfer, and those who live abroad often choose Payoneer."  The article notes: "'I established the company in New York in 2005,' says Yuval Tal, Payoneer's founder, who served until 2011 as its CEO and now is its president and director of business development. 'We began by serving American kids who come to Israel on programs like Taglit-Brithright, Hillel or with the Jewish Agency. We provided them with debit cards they could use to pay for things in Israel. ' Payoneer's client base has long since expanded far beyond this core group. Today its technology is mainly for people with a long list of payment recipients, or what is known in Internet parlance as affiliate networks. ... Payoneer also has a product for very-small size service providers and a service that allows customers to open a virtual American bank account. This means that a small client in China can use Payoneer to offer their services on Amazon or another American website and receive payments to cover expenses, all in dollars. ... Payoneer is a mature startup. Some 180 of the company's 250 employees are located in Israel, with the rest working in the United States and Gibraltar. The company raised $22 million in capital in two rounds, the second in 2008. Payoneer hasn't needed external funding since. Tal claims the company's been profitable since 2010." <li> The article notes: "Israeli payments platform developer Payoneer is buying U.S. startup Armor Payments, it announced on Tuesday. Armor develops a system for guaranteeing payment security in business-to-business transactions. Payoneer declined to say how much it will pay for Armor, whose operations and seven employees are to be folded into Payoneer. Payoneer develops a platform enabling customers and businesses to make payments from different countries and in different currencies. It stated that the acquisition will reduce the suspicion and uncertainty when its customers make purchases from unfamiliar businesses."</li> <li></li> <li></li> <li> The article notes: "Payoneer, a startup whose technology enables companies to pay their suppliers anywhere in the world, said on Wednesday it had raised $25 million in an investment round led by the U.S. private equity firm Susquehanna Growth Equity. Existing investors Carmel Ventures, Greylock IL and Vintage Venture Partners joined the round, the company said. Amir Goldman, managing director of Susquehanna Growth Equity, will join Payoneer’s board. ... Payoneer provides a payment platform that connects thousands of companies with millions of professionals and small business owners in some 200 countries. Already profitable, the company said it would use the new capital to expand into new markets and increase sales and marketing as well as to pursue acquisitions. The company was founded in New York, where it is headquartered, in 2005 by Yuval Tal, who served until 2011 as CEO and is now its president and director of business development."</li> <li> The article notes: "Employees at the Payoneer are still trying to understand what hit them: the Israeli startup company has faced a wave of unwanted publicity after Dubai police claimed that suspects in the assassination of Hamas commander Mahmoud al-Mabhouh used its credit card technology. Payoneer provides prepaid credit cards, which means holders can fill them with money and use them, without the card being tied to a standard bank account. Thirteen of the 27 suspects used prepaid MasterCards issued by MetaBank, a regional American bank, in order to purchase plane tickets and book hotel rooms, said the Dubai police. The police then tied MetaBank to Payoneer. It is still not clear how bad the publicity is. One source close to Payoneer said: 'All such publicity hurts,' but added that customers were unlikely to be deterred from buying the company's products."</li> <li> The article notes: "Payoneer, a US fintech company that helps businesses send and receive money across borders online, has raised $180 million (£141 million) in a Series E funding round. The cash comes from Technology Crossover Ventures (TCV), a Silicon Valley-headquartered VC fund that focuses on growth funding for established tech businesses. TCV has backed giants such as Facebook, Netflix, and Spotify. The funding round is double Payoneer's funding to date and takes its total raised to $270 million (£211 million). CEO Scott Galit wouldn't comment on the company's valuation but it's likely in the billions given the amount of equity doled out. Founded in 2005, Payoneer has two main parts to its business: helping small and medium-sized businesses make overseas payments online; and helping global tech giants like Amazon, Airbnb, and Google, to pay suppliers around the world."</li> <li> The article notes: "Israeli online payments solution company Payoneer Inc. has been selected by online retail giant Amazon Inc. to expand cross-border payment options to sellers from 24 countries who sell on marketplaces in the US, Spain, France, Italy, Germany and the UK. As a featured payment solution for select countries within Amazon Seller Central, Payoneer will provide a simple and convenient way for sellers from top markets including China, Japan and South Korea to receive their Amazon disbursements. In cooperation with Payoneer, Amazon now allows sellers to sign up for Payoneer directly from Amazon Seller Central. Upon Payoneer registration, sellers receive online accounts that can collect Amazon disbursements, and that provide access to these disbursements through local bank account withdrawal or through the use of a Payoneer MasterCard. This alliance marks the first time that Amazon has expanded Seller Central cross-border payment capabilities through alliance with an external payment solution. Payoneer was founded in 2005 by entrepreneur and investor Yuval Tal and has raised $90 million to date including $50 million in August. With 500 employees worldwide, the company is today headquartered in New York with its R&D center in Tel Aviv. Two years ago there were rumors that the company was planning an IPO at a company value of $700 million but in the end it chose a financing round of $25 million instead. Payoneer's investors include 83North, Carmel Ventures, Greylock, Vintage, Ping An and private investors such as Yuval Tal himself, Zohar Gilon, and others. Payoneer has been in the past chosen as one of 'Globes' most promising Israeli startups."</li> <li> The article notes: "Israeli digital payments company Payoneer has raised $180 million in growth equity financing from TCV (Technology CrossOver Ventures) with the participation of former investor Susquehanna Growth Equity. The financing includes $90 million for expanding the company while shareholders sold a stake worth a further $90 million. This is the largest-ever investment in an Israeli fintech company and the proceeds from the financing will be used to accelerate global growth and to enhance an already strong and debt-free balance sheet. Payoneer transforms the way businesses send and receive cross-border payments. The company was founded in 2005 in Israel by president Yuval Tal and former CTO Ben Yaniv Chechik and has raised $235 million to date including the latest financing round. Payoneer CEO Scott Galit said, “TCV shares our belief that we can make a difference by empowering entrepreneurs throughout the world by offering them tools and solutions to participate, compete and succeed in the global economy. TCV’s connections with fast growing e-commerce marketplaces, global brand-building expertise and its long-term investment philosophy are the perfect fit for Payoneer and will help us propel our growth in the years to come.” Payoneer is headquartered in New York and has its development office in Tel Aviv, which houses 560 of the company's 760 employees worldwide."</li> </ol>There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Payoneer to pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Cunard (talk) 05:47, 26 October 2016 (UTC) </li></ul>
 * I agree that a nomination three days after a "keep" close at Articles for deletion/Payoneer (2nd nomination) is disruptive. Cunard (talk) 05:47, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
 * You mean this kind of close " The result was keep. Overall consensus is that the article meets CORDEPH as well as GNG so closing as keep" where Keep vote is made by none other than who can keep anything as seen on other AfD. The discussions has been ignored and Keep votes as counted alone. Numbers of Votes does not make any article keep or delete. The substance of keep article discussion is missing. Where Keep vote contributors only cites GNC and move on. They do not even care to read the articles or references, how they are covered and what actually been covered by them. It is full of advertising, promotions and press and nothing else. Even you want to fill the discussions with News Paper content or with blog. Link would be enough to mention. No need to write the content of covered article. It mislead the voters as some of them only comes here to vote not participation on discussions. Cite GNC or Passes this or that. And move on. All research and efforts made by other contributors goes waste who read articles and make significant observations like happened in previous AfD also. Light2021 (talk) 07:55, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I read the news articles provided in the previous AfD discussion. It is inappropriate to state your unsubstantiated opinion that users have not read sources. It is also rude. North America1000 08:04, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
 * If you think the previous AfD was closed improperly, then you can take it to deletion review, per WP:DRV. But AfD is not for "keep nominating until you get the outcome you want." You are wasting other editors' time. --Mark viking (talk) 08:08, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Sorry if my words reads rude to you. This company is a classic case of high degree of promotions as all the articles covered by media for this one. Only PR or coverage that anyone can get once in a lifetime if they are being funded by investors. Sustainable coverage, notability is highly questionable for this one. By this mode Wikipedia will become PR host or Directory for funded startups. This is encyclopedia not making article based on articles covered by media as News. Neither this is Press distribution channel. Pardon me, But I have no interest nominating articles till I get " Desired Outcome". I have first nominated this one. As there is nothing to write about this one. Except paragraph as mere Company profile. 4 days before or months before, nothing is changed. This is blatant promotions and nothing else. Passing GNC saves such Spam from last few years. Keep votes are counted and being closed. And now Wikipedia is filled with such articles. It creates certain danger to Notability of Wikipedia itself. Else we would have made another Tumblr. What's the difference. You both are seniors to me. I respect your views. And If something in my language found wrong. Apologies. As editors time are valuable, so is mine. I do not want to waste my time either. Thanks Light2021 (talk) 08:42, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I apologize, I was mistaken about who nominated the previous time--it was DGG, not yourself. --Mark viking (talk) 08:55, 26 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep – Per the sources presented at the previous debate and the ones listed above. The news is substantive and is about funds raised and partnerships as well as insight into the finance/tech industry.  It's not fluff and it's not self promotional - these are facts.  Wiki is not a place for every company, but ones that make a mark for unique reasons.  This company does. Veggies 2 (talk) 20:36, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
 * can you be more specific apart from Google News link. which shows news of Funding or operations. Is there any Depth of Coverage made by Significant media that you can present? As getting funded from investors an usual coverage anyone gets in popular media not becuae it is notable but because they got funded by investors. Works merely as Corporate Press. Wikipedia is not a PR host or Press distribution network. Article itself nothing to write except a standard Fintech company profile. Light2021 (talk) 20:51, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

These were not press releases, but articles written by real reporters about this company - profiles and not merely mentions in passing. That seems credible to me and each piece defines why the writer deemed it unique. Veggies 2 (talk) 21:22, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
 * TechCrunch is Significant Media and it wrote about its recent $180 M raise
 * Martin Arnold at the Financial Times was impressed enough to note that "Fundraising one of the biggest by a financial tech company this year"
 * Israel's largest business publication Globes thought enough of it do do an in depth interview as to what the company does to deserve the miney it raised
 * Seeking Alpha is a very prestigious publication in the investment world and it saw to talk about the size and breadth of Payoneer
 * then there is Forbes, no slouch in media credibility, and it covered this company's growth this year.


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.