Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pedro Rodríguez (soldier)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. There is no consensus to delete the article, while one of the delete votes was only tentatively expressed. Equally, while two keeps were strongly expressed, there wasn't enough for this to be a clear keep outcome. (non-admin closure) Bungle (talk • contribs) 19:07, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

Pedro Rodríguez (soldier)

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Fails WP:SOLDIER (two Silver Stars even earned close together is not notable) and lacks SIGCOV in multiple RS to satisfy WP:GNG. One local news story, a DoD story and Arlington Cemetery (which is not RS), all the rest are about his unit and not him personally Mztourist (talk) 08:06, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Mztourist (talk) 08:08, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Puerto Rico-related deletion discussions. Mztourist (talk) 08:08, 3 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete Fails WP:GNG in my view. Intothatdarkness 15:48, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Mild delete seems almost important, but I'm unaware of the importance of the Silver Star award. Agree that the sources aren't much. Oaktree b (talk) 16:34, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep - The Silver Star Medal (SSM) is the United States Armed Forces' third-highest military decoration for valor in combat. The Silver Star Medal is awarded primarily to members of the United States Armed Forces for gallantry in action against an enemy of the United States. He earned two Silver Stars within a seven-day period during the Korean War. This in itself is an amazing feat. According to the article Silver Star he is a Notable recipient. Tony the Marine (talk) 06:29, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia cannot be used as a reference and you added him as a notable Silver Star recipient on 22 March 2005 here: . Mztourist (talk) 10:55, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete Wikipedia is not a reliable source. The attempt to game the system to create an inclusion we see above I clearly do not like.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:06, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment - You're both right, Wikipedia is not a reliable source. However the Department of Defense describes the Silver Star Medal in its Military Awards for Valor - Top 3 U.S. as follows: The Silver Star is the third-highest military combat decoration that can be awarded to a member of the United States Armed Forces. It is awarded for gallantry in action:


 * While engaged in action against an enemy of the United States;
 * While engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing foreign force; or
 * While serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party.


 * Actions that merit the Silver Star must be of such a high degree that they are above those required for all other U.S. combat decorations.


 * This soldier was awarded two of these medals in one week. If this doesn't ,ake him notable then tell of someone else who has been awarded more then one Silver Star Medal in a week. Tony the Marine (talk) 03:53, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
 * We all know the criteria for awards of the Silver Star, its not that notable as can be seen by the many people who have been awarded multiple of them. Mztourist (talk) 05:02, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Just for the record, there are several who earned the SS during a single week in the Korean War. For example, Edward D Williams received two Silver Stars over a two day period Williams.  Roam41 (talk) 02:33, 10 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment - From the first SS citation: "After the enemy weapon fired again, Sergeant RODRIGUEZ charged the position, yelling and shooting his rifle demoralizing the enemy and causing him to flee in haste, taking his gun with him, but leaving ammunition and rations behind. The gallantry and extreme devotion to duty displayed by Sergeant RODRIGUEZ reflect great credit upon himself and the military service". From the second SS citation: "When Sergeant RODRIGUEZ received the order to move his platoon to assist the stalled unit, he ran forward and led his troops in a furious assault, causing the enemy to retreat hastily, thereby relieving the besieged lead platoon. Continuing his charge, Sergeant Rodriguez pursued the fleeing enemy and covered by friendly machine gun fire, he personally searched the area to rout any enemy troops which might have been left behind. The aggressive leadership and personal gallantry exhibited by Sergeant Rodriguez reflect the highest credit upon himself and the military service". Maybe in the opinion of some editors, he is not notable, but this isn't about opinions nor "essays" this is about regarding his military actions as a heroic soldier who is per-se notable. The unit which he belonged to was awarded the Bravery Gold Medal of Valour of Greece and the Congressional Gold Medal. Now, I ask for the third time in this nomination, who else has been awarded the nations third highest military medal within a weeks period? Tony the Marine (talk) 15:50, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Why are you copying over long tracts from the page? Participants in this discussion have read the page. Mztourist (talk) 16:13, 5 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete I'm not seeing sufficient sources to meet WP:BIO Nick-D (talk) 10:19, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Strong keep - RS do exist. Here is one from the US Department of Defense archives of war heroes. --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 16:09, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Why are you copying over a reference that is already on the page? Mztourist (talk) 03:37, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
 * The United States Department of Defense doesn't have a hero's profile on every soldier but has one on this solder. I believe he is notable. --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 02:42, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
 * That doesn't answer the question of why you think its necessary to copy into here a reference that is already on the page. We know its there, we've read it. Mztourist (talk) 02:55, 9 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep - I find a few reliable sources, like this over here: Antonio Riggs Murtaugh Martin (Loser talk page) 22:14, 7 February, 2021 (UTC)
 * That is the first reference on the page. Why are you copying in a reference that is already on the page? Mztourist (talk) 19:27, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete Being awarded two Silver Stars is not notable enough to justify a WP article. The Army gave out over 10,000 of these medals in Korea, with many soldiers receiving more than one. Also, this article is relying entirely on a single source: the DOD story. Two of the  references lead to it directly, one leads to a cut and paste of same (Arlington.net) and a third quotes from it verbatim (Puerto Rico Herald). Starting in 1999, for human interest purposes, the DOD wrote several short pieces about some of the residents of the Armed Forces Retirement Home in Washington DC. They profiled Mr. Rodriguez (a twenty year resident) and 17 other retirees living there, many of whom had no valor awards at all. List Certainly all of those profiled had served honorably, but this single article is not enough to establish notability. Roam41 (talk) 05:23, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per Mztourist and Roam41. Keep arguments rely on reposting already present references (very minor coverage) as if they were new information to be taken into account. — Alalch Emis (talk) 07:36, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   08:11, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep WP:SOLDIER is an essay and so has no official standing and so is not a reason to delete. The subject has received multiple significant awards and so passes WP:ANYBIO which is an actual guideline. Andrew🐉(talk) 11:00, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
 * As always, I referred to SOLDIER and GNG in my nomination. What "multiple significant awards" are you referring to? The non-notability of two Silver Stars has already been clearly established above. Mztourist (talk) 11:04, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
 * The WP:GNG aspect is a supposed lack of WP:SIGCOV which is false. Likewise the Silver Stars are clearly multiple significant awards.  The contrary view comes from WP:SOLDIER which, as noted, is an unofficial essay with no standing.  My !vote stands. Andrew🐉(talk) 20:49, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
 * "SIGCOV which is false" - then let's go through the sources in the article in detail: excluding the medal citations and other primary source/database-type listings (which are not useful for determining notability): WaPo; NY Daily News; Morning Journal are basically the same as far as we're concerned since they have not a single mention of "Pedro Rodriguez"; NBC gives us a namecheck, but that's a trivial mention not amounting to WP:SIGCOV; Puerto Rico Herald is the only one to go into more detail, but even if we put aside any doubts about the source or how much that coverage is SIGCOV (it looks more like a single example, and looks like the article subject was even interviewed, so...), it would still be a single source, short of the GNG requirements for multiple ones. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 21:53, 11 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete SOLDIER or not, significant award or not, the fact is that all of these criteria are ultimately subordinate to WP:GNG. Given that the article seems based on a source by the DoD (which can hardly be considered independent, especially since they're the ones which gave the awards...), and that I can't seem to find anything else beyond database-style award/cemetery/... listings, this is unlikely to be met, hence this likely fails on this criteria. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 18:54, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete As mentioned, SOLDIER is an essay, but I don't think it really matters here. The sources provided don't meet the significance or independence thresholds required of the GNG. As of this revision four of the refs don't directly deal with Rodriguez, five are inarguably primary sources, and the remainder seem plainly unreliable. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs  talk 23:18, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Redirect to 65th Infantry Regiment where he is mentioned. With up to 150,000 Silver Stars having been awarded, it's not unusual to have earned multiple, and it's not notable just for them to have been within a short period. Reywas92Talk 19:17, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep I'm sure he's about the only person from Puerto Rico, often considered to be another country and separate culture from the United States, to receive two Silver Stars. I found at least one list and will do some research. Durindaljb (talk) 03:25, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
 * The only person from Puerto Rico to be awarded two Silver Stars, even if true, is not a basis for notability, only SIGCOV in multiple RS of him will satisfy GNG. Mztourist (talk) 03:55, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Agreed, and in any case he isn't the only person from Puerto Rico to be awarded two silver stars. Intothatdarkness 04:06, 13 February 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.