Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Penn Singers (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   merge to Student life at the University of Pennsylvania. Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:20, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Penn Singers
AfDs for this article: 
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NN college opera group. The only coverage comes from the university's students newspaper, which doesn't establish notability. GrapedApe (talk) 19:30, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Weak Keepor if the consensus is not to keep, Merge to an article on the University. The group has been the primary subject of over 20 articles since 1990 in the campus newspaper, the Daily Pennsylvanian, per . TheDaily Pennsylvanian is a respected, award winning, independent campus newspaper, published since 1885, with an editorial review board and a policy of editorial review of stories, which are written by identified reporters. This establishes verification if any of these articles were added to the article, and shows that they are notable at least within their local community, the university, as much as a town arts group would have verification and local attestation of notability with 20 stories in the noncampus town paper or the local TV station. For a campus arts group (there are 45 at Penn, and I certainly do not advocate articles for every one of them) I would like in addition to see some noncampus reliable, independent and verifiable sources showing that they have more than a local notability, the same as if they were off-campus. If they have only local notability, then the key facts in the article could be greatly condensed and included in the University's article. Edison (talk) 19:43, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete/Merge – The notability guidelines are pretty specific in situations like this where it states; “…A primary test of notability is whether people independent of the subject itself (or its manufacturer, creator, or vendor) have actually considered the company, corporation, product or service notable enough that they have written and published non-trivial works that focus upon it.” Which can be found here at Notability (organizations and companies). Sorry to say, I was not able to find any non-trivial coverage of the organization, even including the student newspaper The Daily Pennsylvanian.  However, I could see a merge on just the pertinent information into the University of Pennsylvania student activities section.  Thanks ShoesssS Talk 20:23, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete, a mention in the college newsletter doesn't establish notability, or we'd have a whole lot more stub BLP.  He  iro  01:29, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment The series of articles are significant coverage, not just "a mention," and the newspaper is not "the college newsletter," anymore than a newspaper in a comparably sized town is "a town newsletter." Edison (talk)
 * Is a student newspaper considered a reliable source here?  He  iro  03:31, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Per the Wikiproject Universities' article guideline:Student-published college newspapers and university-published press releases are generally reliable sources for verifying information, however, these sources cannot be used to establish encyclopedic notability.--GrapedApe (talk) 03:39, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
 * If thats the only references available, then this is pretty much settled then isnt it?  He  iro  03:46, 5 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep A wikiproject guideline doesn't trump the GNG. Anyone can throw up a wikiproject guideline in an hour that can negate any Wikipedia rule. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 11:04, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions.  —• Gene93k (talk) 18:46, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 18:46, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Merge While I think that the sources are borerline independent and reliable, I wonder if the better option isn't just to merge this and several similar articles in the navbox into a College life at Penn or similar article. Jclemens (talk) 19:22, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Merge to Student life at the University of Pennsylvania, which already exists and mentions several of the student performing groups. I'm sure this is a fine organization and if I lived near Penn I would go to their shows, but it's not independently notable. --MelanieN (talk) 23:13, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.