Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pepe Remey


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result of the debate was keep. → Ξxtreme Unction {yak ł blah } 15:22, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Pepe Remey
Like Neal Chase, was tagged as CSD but I find it meets the standards of a biography, however non-notable. Abstain. &mdash; J I P  | Talk 09:02, 1 December 2005 (UTC) Definitly Keep Joseph Pepe Remey Aghsan was the adopted son and successor of Mason Remey and the Guardian of the Baha'i Faith after Mason's death. This Pepe himself attested to even though there are those who dispute with this fact. On this page, as I'm sure it will evolve, it will site letters in Pepe's own hand that testify to this important fact, that he was a Baha'i and firm supporter of Mason as well as the successor of Mason - the Guardian of the Baha'i Faith. He adopted Neal Chase as his successor and this page is of utmost importance and is extremely relevant  to the unfolding of the Baha'i Revelation in the world. user:Vwoodsong
 * Keep. The leader of a religious denomination is inherently notable.  Logophile 13:16, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * KEEP. This is a biography of a central figure of the Baha'is Under the Provisions of the Covenant's. His father Mason Remey was The Second Guardian of the Baha'i Faith, and Pepe was considered by many to be his successor. There were several different groups of Baha'is that formed after Mason's death over who was his actual successor.  There are pages for the other leaders of these divisions.  Pepe's deserves to stand along side of them as a significant number of believers believe he was the true Guardian of the Baha'i Faith. User:Jeffmichaud
 * Keep or merge into Baha'i faith or maybe Baha'i faith (leaders) Just zis Guy, you know? [T]/[C] (W) AfD? 18:21, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Delete Keep As I read the guidelines for biograpies this individual does not meet these criteria. *Pepe Remey is deceased and the criteria is simple: "Has the person made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in the specific field?" The BUPC is a very small, if vocal, group and its size of the is very difficult to independently verify with any degree of accuracy. I can find no online references that specify this group's size but this: ReligiousTolerance.org notes that "They claim a membership approaching 144,000". This site is mirrored in many places but there's no way to confirm the number. Adherents.com' widely mirrored "Major Religions of the World Ranked by Number of Adherents" site doesn't mention the BUPC. (The section "What is a "religion" for the purposes of this list?" is pertinent.) This doesn't seem to me to rise to the level of "widely recognized" and "enduring record." *Further, no reliable sources are cited for this article. The only sources are online which are considered dubious sources. As near as I can tell these pages are basically original research which is not allowed. MARussellPESE 14:29, 2 December 2005 (UTC)


 * The original editor has finally produced independent documentation on notability. Many of the items noted below are not published or mirror sites, and there are several sources that wikipedia specifically bans: usenet boards and chat rooms. That's for other editors to clean up. MARussellPESE 21:25, 4 December 2005 (UTC)


 * KEEPAgain, the previous user is a member of the "Baha'i World Faith" who  are in open opposition to the teachings of the Baha'is Under the Provisions of the Covenant and thus want to delete any pages that profile members of the BUPC simply because he does not agree with the teachings that these individuals represent. A clear case of religious prejudice. Mr. Remey was  the succeeding Guardian of the Baha'i Faith after  Mason Remey  who has a profile page on Wikipedia that is not in contest. Mr. Remey was  an intergral part of the development of the Baha'i Faith and his page needs to be continued and expounded upon as the previous user has correctly cited the BUPC are numbered in the thousands throughout the world. user:Vwoodsong
 * KEEP In response to the question:
 * "Has the person made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in the specific field?"

Pepe’s widely recognized contribution to the enduing historical record of the Baha’i Faith concerns his specific efforts and focus on preserving and rehabilitating the good name of his father Mason Remey, and the validity that in fact his father Mason was the true Guardian after Shoghi Effendi, and not a Covenant-breakers as non-authoritative people have levied against him.

Anyone and everyone that supported Mason as true Guardian was supported by Pepe of which he contributed a tremendous amount of personal and historical information pertaining to the Baha’i faith, which is recognized by both the Guardian groups and sans-Guardians alike.

In their publication “Mason Remey and Those Who Followed Him” the sans-guardians quote Pepe as an expert source and eye witness authority pertaining to the history of the Faith, the role of his father Mason, and his personal stance regarding his own role as guardian. No history of the Baha’i faith can ever be complete without the recognition of Pepe as the world’s leading eyewitness authority and chronicler concerning the person of his father Mason Remey. Though their motives are plainly to malign Mason and disparage Guardian groups, and confuse the issue, and though the do not produced the letter which Pepe had written to them, nevertheless their reliance upon Pepe as their source inherently shows his own undisputed and lasting contribution to the specific belief of the Baha’i faith – let alone the fact that he truly the guardian after Mason Remey and the grandson of ‘Abdu’l-Baha in the aghsan line. Other scholars of threw Baha’i Faith, such as, Brent M. Reed, has also commented on Pepe’s role in this as well: “letters from Mason Remey and Guiseppe Pepe, critical to understanding what really happened during the mid-1960 period of Mason's Guardianship.” (Reed, Beliefnet.com)

Sources for Pepe’s enduring contribution is further documented in:
 * “The Most Mighty Document” (1979) by Dr. Leland Jensen which is recorded in
 * “The Baha'i Faith: A Historical Bibliography” (1985) by Joel Bjorling
 * “Bibliography of English-Language Works on the Babi and Baha'i Faith” (1990) by William P. Collins
 * “Charles Mason Remey and the Baha’i Faith” (2003) by Francis C. Spataro
 * “Mason Remey and Those Who Followed Him” (1997 updated 2002)
 * The Babi and Baha'i Religions: An Annotated Bibliography ( 2005-6) by Denis MacEoin

Online
 * Harvard University, Committee on the Study of Religion
 * Wikipedia

Etc
 * 1) Fact Bites:Mason-Remey
 * 2) Fact Bites:King David
 * 3) Bahai-Library Bio
 * 4) Baha'i Faith Site
 * 5) Mind Spring
 * 6) BeliefNet Discussion
 * 7) Mason Remey.NET
 * User:Jeffmichaud 00:03 03-Dec-05


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.