Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Percussion (Software)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Jayjg (talk) 01:44, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Percussion (Software)

 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

Non-notable company. Given references are all press releases, and I have been unable to find any significant independent coverage that would indicate the subject passes the general notability guideline or WP:CORP. Haakon (talk) 21:41, 21 December 2009 (UTC) Haakon (talk) 21:41, 21 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. Haakon (talk) 21:47, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. Haakon (talk) 21:47, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Hope this is the right place to reply.

I believe this is Notable coverage on Percussion:

CMS Watch - http://www.cmswatch.com/CMS/Vendors/Percussion

Note the top six links of most recent coverage are neither press releases, announcements or other "routine" news issued by Percussion. CMS Watch is vendor independent (http://www.cmswatch.com/About/). As they do their own research and interviews, this would seem to constitute in-depth coverage by a primary source.

Next, search for "Percussion Rhythmyx" or simply "Rhythmyx"

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=rhythmyx&btnG=Search&cts=1261434248122&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

Rhythmyx often yields more notable search results, including blog posts, product reviews, documentation, and other content written by third parties. This is because most third party writers still use the original brand name of "Rhythmyx" for the WCMS whereas most content written by Percussion uses the more recent term "Percussion CM System."

Some examples are below:

Third Party Authored Online Help/Info

http://mass-spec.lsu.edu/wiki/index.php/Rhythmyx

http://podcast.uri.edu/help/index.php/Percussion_Rhythmyx

Independent Organizations

Toronto Rhythmyx/Percussion User Group - http://www.linkedin.com/groups?home=&gid=2323722

Blog Posts

http://www.jboye.com/blogpost/percussion-says-goodbye-to-rhythmyx/

http://drupal.org/node/330446

Media Reviews (secondary source content)

CMS Wire - http://www.cmswire.com/s/results/?cx=006171070544741918777%3Avcodaewypvc&q=percussion&cof=FORID%3A9&siteurl=www.cmswire.com%2Fs%2F%3Fq%3Dpercussion#952

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,6824,00.asp

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Midmarket/Review-Rhythmyx-5/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vimrich (talk • contribs) 22:44, 21 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I think it would be fair to disclose that you are the CTO of the company in question. Haakon (talk) 08:33, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Disclosure is why I used my wikipedia login to make the post, so it would be clear - or at least traceable - who it was from. I just checked again and I don't see any spot in my user registration/profile forms to list company affiliation. I don't think I warrant a user page. I am the CTO of Percussion. I'll happily provide any further info that is sought wherever it would be most appropriate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vimrich (talk • contribs) 15:05, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. First, this is unambiguous advertising: a provider of enterprise web content management (WCM) solutions.... Percussion's solutions extend the functionality of the base platform to include segmenting and dynamic content targeting, content syndication and importing, blogs, user-generated content, and web analytics integration.  The references are all announcements of product version releases or inclusions of the software or business on various "top 100" lists by trade magazines with a limited audience.  - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 17:05, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

The sentence cited as "advertising" is meant as a description of the category of product.

Compare for example to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sitecore "Sitecore provides web content management, online marketing, and intranet portal solutions to large and medium sized organizations worldwide."

And compare to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vignette_%28software%29 "Vignette Corporation (NASDAQ: VIGN) is a suite of content management, portal, collaboration, document management, and records management software"

And compare to:

The terms used in the sentence are all category terms the describe software or web site functions all linkable to existing wikipedia terms pages: "enterprise" = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_software "web content management" = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_content_management "solution" - may be a valid objection, as it is considered "jargon" in business, however, in software it's usage is more specific - a solution is simply something you buy that requires consulting services, rather than "shrink wrap" license model. The inclusion of the term "solution" was meant only to differentiate from that on a category basis. This could easily be removed or changed to something more specific, such as "combination of licensed product or services."

However, compare to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DotNetNuke

"DotNetNuke ... is written in VB.NET and distributed under both a Community Edition BSD-style license [3] and a Professional Edition commercial license. DotNetNuke has an extensive user community and third-party developer ecosystem, and '''the application's content management system is extensible and customizable through the use of skins and modules." '''

Compare also to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfresco_%28software%29

"Alfresco is an enterprise content management system for Microsoft Windows and Unix-like operating systems. Alfresco comes in two flavours[2]. Alfresco Community Edition is free software, GPL licensed open source and open standards. Alfresco Enterprise Edition is commercially / proprietary licensed open source, open standards and enterprise scale."

Other industry standard terms used:

syndication, blogs, user-generated content, web analytics. All wikipedia entries, and all compatible with existing examples describing products that are shown above.

If something is "advertising" for Percussion, it should be "advertising" for Alfresco, DotNetNuke or any of the others - correct? We wrote the description to conform to standards used in those pages.

Three independent notability examples were listed above: Tornoto User Group URI and LSU user community/help pages

The CMS Watch references also listed above show usage of Percussion to - describe a type of CMS architecture http://www.cmswatch.com/Trends/1363-Decoupled-Web-CMS-vendors-have-not-disappeared - comment on company visibility http://www.cmswatch.com/Trends/1420-Percussion---Is-no-news-good-news? - comment on a type of user modeling http://www.cmswatch.com/Trends/1392-When-your-CMS-has-Roles,-but-not-Groups

We'll be rewriting the entry to feature better use of these links, and to remove any jargon.

I would also strongly encourage examining existing comparable non-deleted entries for similar products/companies which all talk about the type of product, license, market target and functions they offer in similar, if not word for word terminology. There seem to be a vastly different standard in that the text that constitutes a "description" for open source products is considered "advertising" for commercial systems. Indeed, many of the entries for the non-commercial systems make the stronger "advertising" superlative claims, including "most widely adopted" etc. without even a flag. Such superlatives are not found in the current summary.

Thanks for consideration as we attempt to improve this entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vimrich (talk • contribs) 19:44, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Made a bunch of changes, showing citations, notability outside of press release citations and clarifying use of Solutions as a brand name. Removed awards and anything else that might be considered self promotion. Again, it appears to be entirely comparable to Day Software, Alfresco in terms of reference sources, citations and general tone. Your further consideration is appreciated. Vimrich (talk) 22:56, 22 December 2009 (UTC)


 * This does nothing to indicate notability. There are still no references to significant coverage. Narrowly-distributed trade press is not significant, nor are incidental mentions in otherwise significant sources. Blogs are rarely considered reliable sources.
 * Note that other stuff exists, and that does not mean that guidelines do not apply. Wikipedia is work in progress and cannot be expected to be consistent.
 * As CTO of the subject company, you have a considerable conflict of interest issue, as do I suspect CJO3000 has. Wikipedia should not be used for promotional purposes. Haakon (talk) 23:13, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Timotheus Canens (talk) 00:12, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.


 * Delete Sources provided do not establish notability. Miami33139 (talk) 08:04, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.