Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pereslavl's Sobor


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. -- RoySmith (talk) 13:19, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Pereslavl&
AfDs for this article: 
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Yet another incomprehensible gibberish generated by User:Superzohar. Ghirla-трёп- 15:29, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete per what Ghirla says. Poorly written article that cites only one source.  G S Palmer (talk) 17:30, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Russia-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 14:59, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 14:59, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 15:02, 2 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep -- Not incomprehensible to me. This appears to be a major council of the Russian Orthodox Church, attempting to impose a limit on simony.  My guess is that this is a transalation from the Russian WP, but unfortunatley I do not know that language.  Peterkingiron (talk) 19:20, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica1000 01:35, 9 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete. This isn't incomprehensible, although it's not really readable, either.  It's a machine translation of an article on the Russian Wikipedia, which isn't really sourced in a manner that meets our expectations, either.  But, here, the question for me is one of the core notability of the event.  The other sobor article currently at AFD is unquestionably notable (just in even worse shape); there's been quite a bit written about it even in, say, the past 100 years.  This council, on the other hand ... well, this snippet view is about the only book source I'm able to locate, and it doesn't really convince me that this is an important or notable event (there are many more Catholic synods than warrant articles, as a parallel).  I see little-to-nothing about this one in religious studies journals, either.  It's possible that I'm merely the victim of systemic bias and the reliable sources are exclusively Russian, but I'm doubtful.  On the merits, I think this article should go. Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 03:08, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment. While I can understand how User:Squeamish Ossifrage came to his conclusions, I do not entirely agree with them. Trying a Google translate of the notes and references in the Russian Wikipedia article, one or two look distinctly dubious and several should probably be regarded as primary - but that still looks likely to leave enough for GNG. However, one also gets more results if one realises that the medieval name for the town in which this was held was Pereyaslavl - including this one. As this makes clear, the importance of the event - which was effectively a trial of Peter of Kiev, the metropolitan of the Russian Orthodox Church, for simony - appears to have been political rather than strictly religious: Kiev had been destroyed by the Mongols a few decades earlier, and Peter's main opponents were from Tver while he was supported by the Princes of Moscow. Peter was acquitted and moved his residence to Moscow a few years later, effectively supporting Moscow's claims to leadership of Russia. Usually, I would therefore be arguing to keep this article, or at least merge it elsewhere. However, the article is currently very substandard, and we don't seem to have anyone both able and willing to evaluate the Russian sources and use them to improve the article. And the current article title is not suitable for English Wikipedia. It might be better, therefore, to use the English sources we now have to improve Peter of Kiev and other related articles, and recreate a better article under a better title as and when it seems needed. PWilkinson (talk) 15:44, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete. The event is less notable, and this draft article is less usable, than Vladimir's Sobor. – Fayenatic  L ondon 22:17, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.