Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Persecution of Christians in the modern era


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Very clear consensus that notability is established and despite some clean-up issues doesn't foul overly afoul of the other issues initially raised. A more significant discussion was raised as to whether this was an unwarranted WP:CONTENTFORK, but consensus also agreed that it was a reasonable separation.

Discussion as to a page/name move can be raised as desired. (non-admin closure) Nosebagbear (talk) 20:13, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Persecution of Christians in the modern era

 * – ( View AfD View log  of Christians in the modern era )

In my opinion, this article (permalink) should be deleted. It is a huge Original Research and Synthesis. Because of the lack of secondary sources addressing the issue, the article has turned into a Directory and a big part of it is a hoax.


 * Not notable. The notability question has been placed in the talk page (and the relevant template in the article) but concerns were not addressed. There are plenty of articles describing Christian persecution in various places in the world. But we can not sum up the notability of persecution in different regions, to establish the notability of Christians in the world. Plus the phrase "in the modern era" is pretty vague. What exactly is the modern era? Modern history? The lack of secondary sources is evident from the first sentence which is not able to offer a valid definition of the article. Even the first reference does not even mention the word "Christian".
 * SYNTH The article is a huge Original Research and Synthesis. Many sources are not even talking about persecution, but about attacks on Christians. These attacks are have been upgraded to the status of "persecution". Ie in Israel, 3 teenagers have burned hundreds of Bibles, the article informs us.
 * Hoax. A large part of the article is a hoax. Claiming that there is Christian persecution in Europe, even in UK (which is not even a secular state) is ridiculus IMO. Hoax is the inevitable result of the SYNTH that has been taking place in the article.Cinadon36 (talk) 08:21, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Just for clarity, everything above my comment, including the nomination paragraph, was all written by one user (Cinadon36) --1990&#39;sguy (talk) 21:05, 11 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions.  D Big X ray ᗙ  15:22, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions.  D Big X ray ᗙ  15:22, 9 January 2019 (UTC)


 * SPEEDY KEEP - Persecution of Christians is an obviously notable topic (e.g., in Egypt, Iraq, China, Afghanistan, India) and there's sourcing in independent, reliable sources to show it is. E.g., 1 2 3 4 5 6. In terms of coverage of worldwide persecution this is also easy to find: 1 2 3 4. If the article is full of BS, then go and clean up the article: AFD is NOT cleanup. FOARP (talk) 13:55, 9 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Speedy keep Repurpose
 * User:StraussInTheHouse valid point, but  Persecution of Christians which is notable, already exists  and Nom failed to mention this. So you might want to reconsider. -- D Big X ray ᗙ  22:12, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Looking at the article in more detail, and its parent article, I see what you mean. The determination of "modern" does stink of original research, but if it could be made more objective and cleaned up I wouldn't be averse to a more meaningful content fork per WP:TOOLONG.  But it does need to be made more encyclopedic, either by TLC or TNT.    SITH   (talk)   22:15, 9 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Either redirect and merge to Persecution of Christians or merge the (entire) modern era section from that article. For some bizarre reason, this article's hatnote implies that the modern era starts in 1989. Clarityfiend (talk) 19:43, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Did consider this but there's a clear length issue with that article. 1989 is a weird starting point but ultimately that's a page-quality issue, not for AFD. FOARP (talk) 21:28, 9 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete and take any valid material into the Persecution of Christians removing the time restriction on that -Snowded TALK 21:59, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep. Topic is obviously notable. The article is obviously not a hoax. Deletion is not cleanup. Srnec (talk) 02:38, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Either redirect and merge This is a bit forky, and much of it seems dubious at best. Nor is there any clear definition of that "modern era" means.Slatersteven (talk) 13:00, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Speedy Keep A discussion is currently taking place about refactoring the various articles on Christian persecution, and depending on the result of that discussion the content in this article may merged elsewhere, but there is an abundance of sources relating to this topic and this article can not be reasonably argued to be non-notable or otherwise worthy of deletion. The nominating editor appears to believe that events need to fit their particular criteria to be condsidered "persecution", a view which I understand but for which they have not obtained consensus. -- LWG talk 14:24, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks LWG for understanding my view, but my redflag is not "notability" but the violation of WP:OR. OR is a reason for Deletetion according to policy. Year 1989 is placed as the the first year of modern age which is absurd and OR that we can not deal with. Merging with "persecution of Christians and avoiding turning the article into a directory, is the best solution IMHO. Cinadon36 (talk) 14:38, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I could get behind that were Persecution of Christians not already WP:TOOBIG. I don't consider the OR issue as serious as you do: when there is an abundance of material on a topic we have to decide how to split it up, and if we did that poorly we should fix the article, not delete it. The "modern era" problem can be solved simply by renaming the article and/or removing the hatnote. In short, there are a number of possible solutions, but deletion of the article is not a good option and other options should be discussed on the respective talk pages instead of here. -- LWG talk 15:09, 10 January 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep I stopped taking the AfD seriously once I saw the unfounded claims of hoaxing. Article at this moment also seems good enough for drawing sensible conclusion. Excelse (talk) 14:49, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep - while article is quite a mess at this point, I think it is possible that it could be salvaged if someone actually put in required time and effort. On a side note, the current title is ridiculous, if scope is intended to be about the Post-Cold War era then put it in the title!--Staberinde (talk) 17:17, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Strong keep: Christian persecution in the modern era is a well-sourced and clearly notable topic, clearly meeting WP:GNG. Numerous examples of modern-day Christian persecution exist, as a brief internet search I did found: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 --1990&#39;sguy (talk) 21:01, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep Of course, this article is obviously notable and should be kept. I should mention that it is very fishy that the same editor who created the article called "Christian persecution complex" is the same individual nominating this article for deletion. Is this an attempt to try to create an ideological narrative? desmay (talk) 03:37, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep as an overwhelmingly notable topic, the article can be improved so original research is removed and only referenced content is used WP:AFD is not cleanup Atlantic306 (talk) 18:08, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep or if not Merge This is a notable topic. Maybe some clean up needed but there's not a case for deletion. Another alternative would be to merge the topic with the main Persecution of Christians page if there's too much overlap. Wikiman5676 (talk) 03:37, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep but improve to solve any NPOV and content issues. The main issue is not whether the persecution of Christians in the modern day is notable--it is, as many others have pointed out. The main issue is instead whether this should be a separate page from Persecution of Christians per policies like WP:PAGEDECIDE. I believe that this should be a separate page for several reasons. Firstly, I think it's the right editorial judgment. Christians being subjugated under the Roman Empire is a fundamentally different topic from Christians in the Middle East today being denied civil rights. Secondly, reliable sources see these as two different topics; you will never see BBC News give the context to the current crackdowns in China as "the Roman Empire also persecuted Christians." Finally, the fact that news articles are likely to continue reporting on this subject means there will be a lot to write about. --Leugen9001 (talk) 05:38, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep I see no issue with keeping it since it is a notable issue - e.g. some news articles just in the last month . I see it as easily passing WP:GNG. The main problem I see with the article is NPOV (and the odd decision to use 1989 as the starting date), some of the entries cannot be described as persecution. That however is not a deletion issue, and AfD is not the place to tidy up articles. Using "hoax" as a rationale is just plain ridiculous. Hzh (talk) 21:05, 15 January 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.