Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Peter Freeman (musician)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep.  MBisanz  talk 14:08, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

Peter Freeman (musician)

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Non-notable musician. Only got attention for his work on the album The Vertical Collection with Jon Hassell. There are no RS in the article: only the two interviews give any biographical informations, and they almost all come from his own month. One of the interviews is done alongside Hassell. The other interview is in a non-notable publication and notes that his work with Hassell as his main contribution to the musical world. The interviewer also says she spoke to Freeman before, for an article on Hassel's work. That article doesn't mention Freeman at all.

Freeman died six month ago, but I didn't find this being reported in any RS. You can only see his death being reported on content farm websites. Mottezen (talk) 06:44, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Mottezen (talk) 06:44, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Engineering-related deletion discussions. Mottezen (talk) 06:44, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. Mottezen (talk) 06:44, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. Mottezen (talk) 06:44, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

Delete  I agree with the nomination this guy really has not made any significant contribution to music. He does not have any awards or anything. Does not pass WP:GNG --Rrmmll22 (talk) 02:26, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Keep and improve I disagree with both the proposer and the first response above. The history of early electronic music and the people who contributed to it is not very well documented, but the scope of Freeman's contributions shown in the filmography is both impressive and interesting. It is easy for some Wikipedians to say "non-notable" and simply scrapping this on the basis of "I couldn't find any sources so there must be none" for a new article is one of the banes of the Wikipedia. This isn't a vanity article; the subject is dead. The proposer asserts that a publication is "non-notable" but that again is just an assertion. Yes, the article needs more citations. The right thing to do is to flag the article for improvement, not for summery deletion. -- Evertype·✆ 19:15, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Keep and improve per Evertype above. To declare my COI, Peter and I were in a relationship during the last months of his life, and we were friends for longer. I am still absolutely distraught, six months after his death. As a musician and innovator, he kept very much to himself but he had influence far beyond that which appears in public sources. He was a software innovator and was a key contributor to Looperverse, and to software developed by AVID. His influence on Jon's music was significant, and you can hear it in Maarifa Street, to give one example. Not just as a musician but also a co-producer, for which he was credited. His memorial service was a who's-who of musical innovators and people he worked with for years. Elliott Sharp said yesterday that Peter "made electrons sing". There is unreleased music of his that will see the light of day. And so on. I know the rules on WP - I've been here nearly 18 years myself - and know that the measure of a person is more than the sum of the WP:RS you can find via Google. Anyways, I've said too much - A l is o n  ❤ 00:37, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
 * The music he was involved in was pretty niche in the first place, but there are interviews dating back over a decade. Here's one ("he likes to stay behind the scenes and not be noticed [..] for the last 17 years has been the bass player and sound manipulator behind Jon Hassell") that's on blogspot, which doesn't meet WP:RS on the surface, until you see that it's Hans Stoeve, who ran a world music radio program on 2SER for many years. Ndeya Records, Jon's own label, referred to him as "A close musical collaborator with Jon Hassell for over 25 years". Much of this is obscure, especially for someone who's not just a musician, but a mixing engineer, producer and sound creator. There's so much focus on charts musicians and rockstars that are in popular genres and hug the limelight, but there's way more to music than just that - A l is o n  ❤ 01:37, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
 * "[... both Peter and guitarist Rick Cox could be thought of as Jon's go to sonic cinematographers [...] They are both such creative and giving creatures and great sounding boards for Jon's directorial vision"] - Hugh Marsh. All these quotes and snippets add up to a much bigger picture. Again, someone will declare this not a WP:RS, but then again, it's Hugh Marsh who's speaking - A l is o n  ❤ 02:06, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Keep and improve as per Evertype, it seems a disservice to a niche topic area and someone who from their discography and collaborations was high profile/prolific in their music genre to just slap a deletion tag on it. His name makes searching efficiently online slightly challenging without doing more serious amounts of due diligence. Smirkybec (talk) 10:02, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Keep and improve as per Evertype and Smirkybec, et al. Niche musicians may not get the kind of  traditional coverage that mainstream musicians get but that doesn't diminish their contributions and so we need to broaden our definition of what is a reliable source to accommodate this - in 2021, blogs by notable commentators have to be looked at differently than how we looked at blogs ten years ago. Yes, let's try to improve this piece with more and "better" sources, but deleting it is utterly uncalled for. Tvoz / talk 21:07, 20 October 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.