Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Peter Romary


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The article is a mess and has been a vandalism target for years. Notability is questionable, despite a list of references in obscure law publications and a bunch of dead links. Honorary consuls aren't notable, and neither are temporary administrative law judges. If he becomes notable in the future, there's a clean slate. Katietalk 13:42, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Peter Romary

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The subject of this article appears to lack notability on any plausible basis. An honorary consul doesn't come close to meeting WP:DIPLOMAT. While his legal career seems laudable, there's nothing that meet any criteria of notability. Many of the sources cited are dead, couldn't be repaired, and didn't seem to indicate notability under WP:GNG. Fiachra10003 (talk) 00:39, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Fiachra10003 (talk) 00:39, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

"Keep" Wow, the article has been through the grinder with vandalism and looks like original author made some claims, about 6 years ago, about being asked to do it, said the subject self-edited (if the guy did doesn't look like it for years and looks like the original author seems more angry he was canned on website work). With all the back and forth and vandalism etc it might be fairer to the guy to delete it, BUT, this is an encyclopedia.

Let's apply WP:AnyBio "People are likely to be if they meet  of the following standards" Three are listed, let's look at TWO (and this is for "anyone"

Criteria #1 Notability

It seems the guy is notable for several reasons.

He received the Ellis Island Medal of Honor (very prestigious) "Past medalists include seven U.S. presidents, several world leaders several Nobel Prize winners, and other leaders of industry, education, the arts, sports and government" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellis_Island_Medal_of_Honor http://medalists.eihonors.org/index.html Seems it also got in Congressional record: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CREC-2004-06-22/html/CREC-2004-06-22-pt1-PgE1210-2.htm Their criteria seem to be similar, maybe a bit more demanding, than Wikipedia: https://www.eihonors.org/medalists  (The highest civilian honour sanctioned by both the US House and the Senate that is awarded solely to US citizens, I guess because others can be given to any national https://web.archive.org/web/20121020133144/https://allafrica.com/stories/200801290686.html.

He is a New York Times Bestselling Author / Co-Author https://www.amazon.com/Get-Truth-Former-Officers-Persuade/dp/1250080592 "Instant NYT Bestseller". He was reported to be "contributing editor on another one (see cite at end) . "The British press it is said reported that he was only the second British native to be specially honored by having their name in lights in Times Square, the first being Sir Winston Churchill".

He was also the winner of National Law Journal Pro Bono Award in 2002 (more below) and of 14 states highest civilian honors https://directory.campbell.edu/people/peter-romary/. He also got the Verizon Men For Change Award https://web.archive.org/web/20111208002859/https://www.ecu.edu/news/romaryhonored.cfm. (sorry for extra addition but there is stuff there as I shut down)

Also looks like something he and someone else did together for university safety was rated one of top 4 in nation: https://web.archive.org/web/20121216055320/www.ecu.edu/news/newsstory.cfm?ID=1927

Being a Hon Consul in normal scheme is not a huge thing, absolutely agree, but it looks like Namibian President was part of the announcement of his appointment which marked the first diplomatic post for any African nation in North Carolina. That may not seem much to some in Wiki-world, but I have no doubt it was a big deal to that nation, their President, their Ambassador and their people (famous for being mispronounced by Trump as "Nambia") and likely also a big deal for African Americans in North Carolina https://web.archive.org/web/20121020133144/https://allafrica.com/stories/200801290686.html.

Criteria #2:

No matter how obtained, a world record is a world record on the verdict front (seem to be several references). Also NYT Bestseller is enduringhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_York_Times_Best_Seller_list. Again, National Law Journal Pro Bono Award = THE top pro bono attorney in the nation for that year. I have no idea how many millions of attorneys there are in the USA (too many probably) but #1 in the nation for doing good work, without charge, for good?? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_National_Law_Journal https://www.law.com/nationallawjournal/?slreturn=20200527225050 Looks like it has largest circulation of any legal newspaper in USA (which probably means world because of so many lawyers)

No need for me to go on and I'm too tired anyway. May be best to cleanup biography or Rewriting it yourself not something I want to do.

I think we need to be wary as there seem to be vandals, allegations of blackmail outside of Wiki-world and some people could be playing with fire. Original author seems to have a huge axe to grind here and they has kept up on their Talk page items in clear violation of Wikipedia policy for any page including (especially) talk pages. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks. "Accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence. Serious accusations require serious evidence, usually in the form of diffs and links". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Attack_page WP:NPA It would not surprise me to suddenly see a whole bunch of "Delete" comments coming in from people. I may even get attacked as I live in North Carolina, I may have driven past his car on highway. But, "I'm a Tar Heel Born and a Tar Heel Bred and When I die I'll Be a Tar Heel Dead" and I like seeing people who do good things and get recognized be recognized. After all the proverbial hitting the fan with vandalism etc HE may want it gone. Like I say "Keep" that may be a poisoned chalice!

All of that said, I found in 2 minutes links that show winning a top award and NYT Bestseller - if they were up here and taken down maliciously that is problem and it may be kindest to delete. But do we delete something that meets guidelines because people use it for target practice. Just some thoughts. ZeusBeard2018 (talk) 03:00, 28 June 2020 (UTC) ZeusBeard2018 (talk) 03:25, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Law-related deletion discussions. North America1000 08:45, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of North Carolina-related deletion discussions. North America1000 08:45, 28 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Articles for deletion/Log/2020 June 28.  —cyberbot I   Talk to my owner :Online 10:38, 28 June 2020 (UTC)


 * I am a close friend to his family. I know that this page has been used by people to attack him and them various times. The original writer's page first claims that he did not know the subject or his brother and then complains about being let go from writing a website. Then he started making off the wall claims about police and threats from the subject's mother. I can see that it's too much for the family and they have wanted it gone for years. It's much more trouble than it's worth and should just be deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eirekakuna (talk • contribs) 15:06, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep pretty much per ZeusBear. Notable topic with GNG-satisfying coverage. ——  Serial # 14:17, 28 June 2020 (UTC)


 * I know I've posted before on this if family and subject want it down then maybe "Delete" may be better option. I will add that the Dreddhk talk page should be blanked as it has sat untouched for over 6 years. There is zero sourcing of of personal allegations (about stuff outside of WP or even related to WP on it, they would not let someone remove a post, and seems they reposted it themselves, that asked for information consistent with threats and matters outside of Wikiworld and seemed to run afoul of litigation threats caution. Also WP:UPNOT WP:UPPolemic WP:Up and many others from  seem to apply as reasons for Admin to delete (I won't as the person seems to get quite annoyed when people take things down). I agree with Eirekakuna that kind of unsourced (and contradictory when you read it) aside from being stuff that seems to show someone who has a big grudge,  to protect the integrity of this site. Especially in a time when Congress is being asked to look at repealing the protections of sites by the Communications Decency Act. ZeusBeard2018 (talk) 16:51, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete - Only borderline notability, supposed "prestigious" awards aren't. I don't think we lose a damn thing by deleting this article. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:13, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete - There is a dearth of secondary sources about the subject here. All of the support for notability discussed above are primary source. The Ellis Island Award goes to a hundred people every year, and there is little evidence that it is prestigious in a given field. The book's promo materials claim that it was an "instant New York Times bestseller," but there is little in the way of reviews or other secondary source coverage (I found one short blurb). The NLJ pro bono award does not go to a single individual but is awarded to a number of people. They are mainly used by attorneys for self-promotion. agt x  16:50, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete- To be fair to Peter Romary, this page should be taken down. As a law student, I learned how Wikipedia pages and other online Platforms are used as blackmail. Wikipedia's value is in its user driven content. However, placing content editing ability in the hands of the public brings with it great risk if it is not properly monitored. Without properchecks, it grants malicious users the ability to directly attack the reputations of figures such as Romary in attempts to compel speech or certain actions related to pending legal actions.I am a good friend and former student of Peter and it has been painful to watch his reputation be drug through the dirt for things he did NOT do and that has been (or in certain matters - will be) shown through appropriate legal action that he did NOT do. Such public attacks not only harm the individual, it harms the family members and business contacts asthe individual as well. The content that has appeared on Peter's page has been recently used for apparent obstruction of justice here in the U.S. The information that appeared in this page and the motivations behind certain content posted on it is likely a crime in other interested nations as well. At this point, the content on this page has gone way beyond just being rude or distasteful. To uphold the integrity of platforms like Wikipedia, thus enabling the platform to be used for it's intended purpose, and to be fair to Peter, this page should be taken down. The public Wikipedia misinformation campaign needs to stop.

I would ask people to please be respectful in their comments, and I mean this in good faith and with respect.
 * "Neutral" If pushed I would go with weakdelete out of respect for the guy, based on what's been posted here and the amount of time passed since awards and acts that go to notability. I do think that properly edited and with citations replaced it meets all the standards for notability. NLJ Award: maybe 4 of 1.5 million lawyers honored per year (don't confuse with their law firm honor roll used to placate consciences it seems).

For example: Back in 2001, a quick search shows, that over 10,000 people were nominated for the Ellis Island Medal of Honor and about 50 got it. That's notable.In 2004 it was closer to 20,000 nominations out of 300 million citizens in this country and since inception the number awarded per year has ranged from 50 or so to 100. Pretty exclusive. the subject got it over 16 years ago, almost 20 years for NLJ award. If anyone wants to know about prestige of EIMH read the biography of Rosa Parks see interview of Ali on YouTube after he got it (greatest boxer ever) or see this from Nixon Presidential Library: https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/museum/exhibitions/ellis-island-medal-honor#:~:text=Recognized%20by%20the%20United%20States,have%20distinguished%20themselves%20in%20their

or this from a Senator https://sd25.senate.ca.gov/news/2019-05-13/senator-anthony-j-portantino-awarded-ellis-island-medal-honor-prestigious-award#:~:text=The%20Ellis%20Island%20Medal%20of,recipient%20into%20the%20Congressional%20Record.

-NYT Bestselling author (I bought it based on an article in Forbes magazine so I know it's in there, and wired and was on BBC World Service).

-World Record, agree not many secondary sources.

-The stuff about Masonic Lodge? Zero notability no idea why it's in.

-Jobs? Zero notability. Looks like he left the university.

-Name in lights in Times Square? - Media said (and I knew because Gloria Steinem got it on 56 women side, he was "one of only 56 men from around the world recognized for combat violence against women" NASDAQ and Lifetime TV sponsored that, but again years ago.

-"First Diplomatic post for any African nation in NC"? - Those were words of head government people from Namibia. Yes, notable as a first BUT again, looks like it was closed out when he finished his "tour" and again that is a number of years back.

I think we MAY have notability in things and so collectively. But, the most recent award in the entry was 2011 and others are reaching back to almost 20 years ago. So, notable NOW? Maybe to some students, maybe to lawyers but it seems he (or friends) don't see him as notable and he does not seem to be ongoing.

I also believe I read somewhere that he made a lot of money and now lives mostly in the UAE, again I could be wrong, but believed I saw reference to him, ton of money and living in UAE. Do NOT hold me to that!

This is BarnabytheBear, but I'm stopped on the way to Celebrate July 4th!! 96.10.31.98 (talk) 15:05, 3 July 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.