Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Phatmass

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Delete Jtkiefer  T - 22:47, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

Phatmass
Promotion of a religious movement, AfD under WP:NOTa propaganda machine. Seems to be part of an organized program to prosteletyze using Wikipedia, see http://www.kensmen.com/catholic/evangelize.html Also related Dust Sieber Flowery and image Phatmass_stage2.gif. Expect to find additional "projects" and numerous reverts as this seems to be part of their program --Outlander 16:36, September 12, 2005 (UTC)

Not promotion of a religious movement, rather a description of a religious movement and more. A valid and noteworthy aspect of contemporary American youth culture. Not simply a unique online community, but also an affiliation of musicians and artists. Excluding phatmass from wikipedia strikes me as a mistake consider the fact that there are articles on some of the must banal and absurd topics.

And I fail to understand the accusation of an organized program to prosteletyze using Wikipedia. The link provided points to a page belonging to some unaffiliated organization who happens to have phatmass.com on their list of websites to prosteletyze. Ha!

Phatmass.com is entirely public and is archived by google.com and archive.org. You will find not evidence of an organized program to prosteletyze using Wikipedia, the accusation is utterly absurd. Good day!
 * vote discounted by closing admin Jtkiefer  T - 22:45, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

re:Phatmass Hmmm…   Phatmass.com doesn’t seem to view “trads” in a favorable light See user profile Extra ecclesiam nulla salus - so the kensmen.com "trad" movement seems entirely unrelated. Moreover, Phatmass is a Christian music production group – therefore a valid entry example: Tooth & Nail Records --Lounge Daddy 17:24, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
 * A music production group? Is that what they're describing at http://www.phatmass.com/about/? --Outlander 17:41, September 12, 2005 (UTC)

Note: Phatmass.com has several members who attend a legitamite mass of 1962, myself included ie:  the_rev. Others would include at phatmass, McJust, Totus Tuus, and many more. The reaosn why Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus is marked as "phishy" is because he holds beliefs contrary to what the Catholic Church teaches. Promotion of the SSPX, or affiliation is wrong since they are in schism.

Please do not delete this page, because it may be helpful to others.

The About thing is mainly talking about the site which is forums, but any casual perusal of the site will reveal the music side of things (click the music section, or any of the message boards for a particular band in the forums section). And as I said, you will find nothing about an organized prosteletyzing on Wikipedia or whatever else you were accusing phatmass of. The only thing that is related in the phatmass mission statement is: "Our mission is to live and defend the faith given to us by Jesus Christ by remaining totally and completely obedient to the teaching authority of His Church. We encourage dialogue between people of all faiths and recognize that we are all children of God striving for holiness." This is hardly prostelytism, it is defending the faith when anti-Catholics visit the forums and what not. I do not understand your bias in this case. What is the issue?

And futhermore, did you read on that page the section regarding what phatmass does? Example: "Produces Catholic hip-hop music as a creative method of communication to the youth and urban culture" "Performs at live shows and events across the country with the cooperation of a network of different artists"

Regards
 * vote discounted by closing admin Jtkiefer  T - 22:45, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

No all music page? Check it: http://www.phatmass.com/music/index.php http://www.phatmass.com/music/hip-hop.php http://www.phatmass.com/music/rock.php http://www.phatmass.com/music/rythm_blues.php http://www.phatmass.com/music/electronica.php http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showforum=31
 * Delete. As a website, they have an Alexa rank of ~100k and falling fast, too low for inclusion. As a music producer they have no allmusic page, nor do any of the bands listed. (One of the bands, Remnant, has an album listed, but no bio.) From what I can tell, just about all of those bands would fail WP:MUSIC as well. --Icelight 18:41, September 12, 2005 (UTC)

Also the same was ranked pretty high on a recent list of popular Catholic sites.
 * Allmusic, as in Allmusic.com, a site referenced by WP:MUSIC as providing a rather good indication of what a band or lable has done. --Icelight 19:34, September 12, 2005 (UTC)


 * Note - I'm not accusing Phatmass of anything. We delete or keep pages on their own merit, not on any imagined conspiricy. The reason for the note on www.kensmen.com was simply to make other wikipedians aware that such programs exist. --Outlander 20:31, September 12, 2005 (UTC)
 * I hate myself already, but keep. 68,700 google hits for "phatmass." The article has improved a little since it was nominated, it looks like.  Bunchofgrapes 22:07, 12 September 2005 (UTC) Vote changed to Delete - Icelight is correct below, and the vast vast vast majority of those google hits are identical forum pages. I'm no longer convinced this site/movement/organization is notable. Bunchofgrapes 18:10, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Google reads links, Alexa reads hits. This would mean that lots of people link there, but few actually go there. --Outlander 14:35, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually, there are only 79 unique links to phatmass. That's a tiny number, and probably means that the rest are just copies of the same few forums. --Icelight 17:31, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

What's so different about the two sites that they'd allow Onerock and not Phatmass?
 * What's odd is that there seems to be no problem with the Onerock.com entry on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onerock
 * Onerock is in AfD - --Outlander 17:55, 13 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Leaning toward keep now that it's cleaned up. Getting slightly off-subject, a friend of mine is friends with Father Stan Fortuna and talks about him often.  I've never met him myself.  I was flat blown away when I saw his name over on new pages patrol, so I expanded the article.  According to his website, he's quite notable.  Only thing that keeps me from a full-blown "keep" on this article is no mention of "phatmass" on his website.  His main genre seems to be Catholic-based hip hop. - Lucky 6.9 05:13, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Fr Stan was involved with - and has a track on - Phatmass' first comp, released 1993


 * Delete as per Icelight. Just not enough there except some nn forum and that they produce some bands that don't meet WP:MUSIC. I guess they have an enthusiastic anon editor as PR, which is nice, but does not make the subject notable. MCB 07:30, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, nonnotable. --Angr/undefined 07:54, 13 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Keep, article is clean; indications that bands and phatmass brand have been associated with notable youth events, national and international (eg. World Youth Day); I encountered related interviews/features in online sources of apparent note.  --Fangorn35
 * Yahoo returned around 128,000 results for 'phatmass'.
 * 1,950 registered members at Phatmass.com

Keep, is straightforward, has no "hidden agenda", seems to be a clear and professional organization with links to large events like WYD and NFCYM.

KEEP IT....useful article and cool website. No harm done.
 * vote discounted by closing admin Jtkiefer  T - 22:45, 21 September 2005 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.