Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Phillip Reilly


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. BJ Talk 01:25, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Phillip Reilly

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Football player who very clearly fails WP:ATHLETE as he has never played in a fully professional league (he never made a first team apperance for his English clubs, and the Irish ones do not play in a fully pro league. пﮟოьεԻ   5  7  11:43, 5 September 2008 (UTC) Delete: fails WP:FOOTYN. No decent ghits to speak of.  -- Alexf42 12:02, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football related deletions. пﮟოьεԻ   5  7  11:43, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Athletes-related deletion discussions.   — Cliff smith  talk  16:46, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete fails notability at WP:ATHLETE, having never played in a fully-pro league/competition. Never made an appearance for Stockport or Man City as per his soccerbase page. --Jimbo[online] 12:11, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. GiantSnowman 13:20, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep The "part-time" clubs in the League of Ireland are not amateur, they are semi-professional. Aslo, why not delete all LoI articles in that case?Juve curr (talk) 19:01, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The fact that they are semi-professional is irrelevant. The WP:ATHLETE guideline clearly states "fully professional". And yes, the idea is to gradually get rid of all the LOI players who fail to meet the criteria (otherwise why bother having guidelines). пﮟოьεԻ   5  7  19:40, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep- If there is no fully professional league in Ireland, and this person has played at the highest level of the semi-professional competition, then he passes WP:ATHLETE per this bit: "Competitors who have competed at the highest level in amateur sports". Reyk  YO!  22:09, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Using that logic we should allow players from the top division in Andorra and San Marino articles (and anyway, football is not an amateur sport, so that part is irrlevant). WP:ATHLETE in its current form (fully professional league) exists for a reason (to stop articles on non-notable sportsmen). пﮟოьεԻ   5  7  07:46, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * A few things. Firstly, I object to you changing a Wikipedia guideline that affects an open discussion you're heavily involved in, and have therefore changed it back. See the talk page. Secondly, slippery slope arguments of the form "if you include this, then you have to include all sorts of crap" don't work on me. The Irish football competition is of a similar standard and standing to neighbouring leagues which are professional, and vastly higher in standard to San Marino or Andorra's leagues. Irish teams have consistently been able hold their own against professional teams from Scotland, for instance. Reyk  YO!  09:33, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The change was not particularly meant to affect this discussion, and theoretically there would never be a good time to implement it because sadly I am almost constantly involved in AfDing non-notable athletes. However, the change is necessary to fix the common misinterpretation that players playing in leagues such as the FAI League of Ireland qualify under the amateur sports bit. It's quite clear that this is not the right way to interpret the guideline, as in that form, it can be used to justify articles on players in (say) the top handball league in England, the top ping pong league in Guyana, or the top division of curling in Kenya. It's quite clear to me (and many others) that the amateur sports part is for sports where there is no professional league anywhere, and thus it is impossible for players to pass WP:ATHLETE otherwise. As for the third part of your statement, I would add a huge tag to it.  пﮟოьεԻ   5  7  22:05, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete - per nom. Hubschrauber729 (talk) 22:28, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep. We've established previously that articles can exist for players in the top league of football in Ireland. Most recently in Articles for deletion/Neil Gallagher (footballer) which I note was closed as a keep no less than 36 minutes before this AfD was started. As that AfD was started by the same person as this one, this is clearly a WP:POINT nomination. Nfitz (talk) 03:47, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * No, we haven't established anything of the sort. There were two other AfDs running around the same time, both of which ended in delete. Just because one AfD had the wrong result doesn't mean we have to repeat it. пﮟოьεԻ   5  7  07:46, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Looks like that was the right result to me. It was your AfD, if you really did disagree that it was the right result, you should bring it do DRV, rather than trying to game the system, by starting up similiar AfDs. The other two seemed to fly under the radar, not getting near as much attention - I wasn't aware of either. Nfitz (talk) 04:22, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete - The League of Ireland is not fully professional. The vast majority of notable Irish players play in the fully professional league system in England, which effectively acts as the top level of competition for Irish football players. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 08:05, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Other leagues aren't fully-professional, but we accept their players. One example is MLS in North America. As recently as Saturday Toronto FC put amateur player Rick Titus on the field, who was unpaid. Do you suggest we delete hundreds of articles for MLS players? Nfitz (talk) 05:46, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Of course not. That is one player playing in one game. Per the link given above, there are "four or five" part-time clubs in the League of Ireland. That means there are fifty or so semi-professional players playing in that league every week. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 18:48, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * However the majority of teams and players are fully professional. It's the top tier of football in Ireland. It's completely non-sensical that these players don't meet the spirit of the guidelines. Surely there are better things to do here than to be deleting the top players from small countries. Nfitz (talk) 03:45, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom and WP:FOOTYN Ban  Ray  12:24, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom and WP:FOOTYN. --Angelo (talk) 08:43, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete as failing WP:ATHLETE . The WP:ATHLETE disclaimer of 'Competitors who have competed at the highest level in amateur sports' applies to global events such as Olympics, World Championships - not the highest level in a particular location. Of course, if someone provides reliable sources to the contrary (which is all that the guidelines assume, if you have performed at x level it is fair to assume coverage exists) I will reconsider. Nuttah (talk) 10:53, 9 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.