Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Philosophy of Miracle


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. Withdrawn nomination with no outstanding delete !votes. (non-admin closure) Tim Song (talk) 19:46, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Philosophy of Miracle

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

Fails WP:NALBUM Never charted anywhere, only thing listed is the track listing. No reviews, no critical reception.  Pop Music Buff talk  18:23, 19 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep. In a nutshell:
 * Philosophy of Miracle is a notable album by a notable artist
 * I am currently working on expanding and improving this article and others on Vitas albums
 * Deleting this article would mean the loss of significant information which is likely to be sought by Wikipedia readers; and moving the information from the individual album articles into the Vitas Discography section is not a suitable solution because this would make the section overlong and the article appear cluttered.

I don't think the notability of Vitas himself is in question: he is a major star in Russia, China and several other countries and meets several of the WP:NM criteria.

The album is inherently notable as a major release from a notable artist, and also his debut album: furthermore, this album is reported to have sold millions of copies (I have now added a reference to this effect to the article). The album includes Opera #2 which was released as a single and earned the Best-selling Single Russian Record prize in 3 consecutive years. Several songs from this album also featured in his Philosophy of Miracle concert programme, whose performance at the Kremlin earned Vitas a record as the youngest artist to perform a solo concert at the State Kremlin Palace; a DVD of this concert was later released.

According to Vitas' website: he released nine albums ("Philosophy of Miracle", "Smile!", "Mother", "The Songs of My Mother", "Kiss As Long As Eternity", "Return Home. Part 1", "Return Home. Part 2", "XX-th Century HITS", "Light Of A New Day") which were entered into the Top Three most popular albums in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008. (according to the official sales) - he released two singles ("Opera # 2" and "Goodbye"). According to the official sales results, the single "Opera # 2" was awarded a Russian Prize (established by the producers of phonograms "Record") as the bestselling single of 2001, 2002 and 2003

I am surprised by the claim that this album "Never charted anywhere". It's generally much more difficult to prove a negative than a positive, particularly in a case like this, when many foreign music charts are not widely published online, and sources such as the one quoted above are unclear about specifics. It would be more accurate to say that we currently have no information as to whether this album has charted anywhere. If I find any information regarding chart positions in any country, I will add this to the article.

The WP:ALBUM section states:

In general, if the musician or ensemble that recorded an album is considered notable, then officially released albums may have sufficient notability to have individual articles on Wikipedia.

Album articles with little more than a track listing may be more appropriately merged into the artist's main article or discography article, space permitting.

I think the second guideline quoted above is intended for cases where an artist has a very short discography and where no existing articles on their individual albums include notable information beyond tracklisting, year of release etc.

Vitas' discography on Wikipedia is currently a section within the main Vitas article. He has released 9 studio albums, in addition to a number of singles, compilations and DVDs, so I do not consider merging full track listings into the main article to be practical. I intend to expand on the existing Vitas album articles, this one included, as well as writing articles for those albums which do not already have their own, so we're going to end up with way too much information to include comfortably in the main article. I should also add that the album Mama already includes songwriting credits - significant information beyond a mere tracklist.

It is perfectly normal for major releases by notable artists to have their own Wikipedia articles, and this is as it should be. It would be ridiculous and confusing to have a Discography detailing tracklistings for the albums deemed less "notable" with entries for more notable albums linking to separate articles. What we have here is information on a notable subject for which interested readers are likely to search Wikipedia: it is in the right place and I believe (please correct me if I'm wrong) currently the only webpage anywhere which presents the tracklisting in the original Russian and in English on the same page. Contains Mild Peril (talk) 14:55, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

"All articles on albums, singles or songs must meet the basic criteria at the notability guidelines, with significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject."  Pop Music Buff talk  16:01, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete
 * In what way is this album (or any of his other albums) notable? WP:NALBUM states
 * Only official official charts can be used in Wikipedia for albums and singles and notable songs. If you can provide such charts with reliable sources, then feel free to add them.
 * These tracklisting are not likely to be sought after by Wikipedians, considering that a link to his official site is posted on his artist page.
 * WP:NALBUM states:
 * Comment - Your nomination itself is a de facto !vote to delete. It is not necessary to !vote delete in the discussion. Rlendog (talk) 21:50, 23 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment - For albums, WP:ALBUMS states "In general, if the musician or ensemble that recorded an album is considered notable, then officially released albums may have sufficient notability to have individual articles on Wikipedia." As of yet, I see no reason to override the general rule for this album.  I could be convinced otherwise if no significant coverage actually exists, but the coverage requirements under WP:N are not limited to English sources, and since this is a Russian album, I would need to be convinced that no significant Russian sources exist before !voting delete.  As of now, there is no indication of what the nominator did under WP:BEFORE to ascertain that there is no significant coverage in Russian sources. Rlendog (talk) 21:48, 23 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment - This article has been considerably improved since AfD nomination was made. I believe the concerns raised have now been addressed.


 * Notability: 3.5 million sales in China alone, with 20 million downloads of the multi-award winning Opera #2. Opera #2 is probably sufficiently notable to warrant its own article (it's on my to-do list), and it would be a strange and unusual situation for an article on a notable single to have no link to a corresponding album article.


 * I would also contend that Vitas albums are inherently notable as major albums from a notable artist (and as I mentioned above, Vitas meets several WP:NM criteria). It is questionable whether he would be famous for other activities were it not for the music on these albums. This one is particularly notable as his debut. I believe this article has potential to grow into a WP:Good Article.


 * Content: This article has been considerably expanded, and now includes far more than a tracklisting (and Wikipedia is the first place I and many others look for album tracklistings anyway: there are many reasons why it may be preferable to commercial sites). I believe it is currently the only English language source of songwriting credits for this album. It provides information about the associated tour, critical reception and the single Opera #2, and cites multiple sources.

Keep and close discussion  Pop Music Buff talk  17:34, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.