Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Physical punishment


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Corporal punishment. (non-admin closure) sst✈(discuss) 09:35, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

Physical punishment

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Physical punishment as a separate topic from corporal punishment appears to fail Wikipedia's general notability guideline (Notability). I have found no reliable sources that make a distinction between the two; a search for "physical punishment" on The Free Dictionary (Legal) merely redirects to "Corporal punishment". On Wikipedia, the page Corporal punishment already describes the subject well. Physical punishment is primarily a list, with no sources cited (WP:VERIFY), and whose navigational function is already covered by the Category page Physical punishments. Coconutporkpie (talk) 09:44, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Physical punishment is, however, a common term for referring to corporal punishment (judging by the pages that link to it), so maybe a redirect to Corporal punishment is a better option, per WP:SYNONYM. —Coconutporkpie (talk) 11:04, 29 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep This is much the same as corporal punishment and there are plenty of sources which use the phrase such as Physical Punishment in Childhood: The Rights of the Child; From Physical Punishment to Positive Discipline; Physical Punishment Across Generations. The page is currently being used as a navigational page to help our readers get to the various types and this seems sensible. Andrew D. (talk) 12:42, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
 * If it's much the same as corporal punishment, why is your !vote not for redirecting? &mdash;  Rhododendrites talk  \\ 16:37, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
 * We are here to decide whether to delete the page. This should not be done because the topic is notable.  The details of how to structure the various aspects and names for the topic is a matter of ordinary editing.  The title physical punishment seems well-used in the title of substantial sources and so may well be the best title for the topic.  But sorting that out is beyond the scope of this discussion because AFD is not cleanup. Andrew D. (talk) 18:04, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
 * We are here to decide what to do with a page someone has nominated for deletion. Do you not acknowledge the many possible outcomes of AfD (as listed at WP:AFD)? Since keep and redirect are both distinct options, by choosing keep you're effectively communicating that this separate article is acceptable. I'm aware that you already know all of this, so maybe it's that you're just making a principled objection or taking a personal stand against the bringing articles to AfD that should've just been redirected to begin with, rather than issuing an evaluation of what the proper fate of the article should be when taking into consideration the various applicable policies and guidelines? I mean, I guess it's not all that big of a deal since the end result in this case is very clear, but it makes the discussion muddled when someone doesn't play by the rules we assume of one another. &mdash;  Rhododendrites talk  \\ 19:09, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, this separate article is acceptable. Andrew D. (talk) 19:41, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
 * If the point being made is that "Physical punishment" is the better title, then that would seem to be an argument for renaming Corporal punishment and deleting or merging the existing Physical punishment list article.—Coconutporkpie (talk) 07:12, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's an option. What we have here is a rather general concept — punishment of the body rather than more abstract punishments such as fines or loss of status.  This covers a wide range of punishments including imprisonment and strange mortal tortures such as scaphism.  But the trouble is that, by the title corporal punishment, you get a focus on flogging and beating, especially of children.  The title physical punishment seems to work better as taxonomy and the page in question has a good navigational focus, helping readers to the specific aspect they are looking for. Andrew D. (talk) 08:59, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Law-related deletion discussions. Sam Sailor Talk! 15:10, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Social science-related deletion discussions. Sam Sailor Talk! 15:10, 30 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete as a fork of Corporal punishment. Carrite (talk) 16:16, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Corporal punishment, which is exactly the same topic, and which begins "Corporal punishment or physical punishment is...". &mdash;  Rhododendrites talk  \\ 16:37, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I created that wording in the lead paragraph of Corporal punishment, because numerous sources make clear that the terms are synonymous. Indeed, the page was a redirect to Corporal punishment at one point, and was then converted to the existing article, as the edit history shows. —Coconutporkpie (talk) 06:40, 1 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Redirect to corporal punishment per above points. Rubbish computer (HALP!: I dropped the bass?) 16:30, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Redirect to corporal punishment. Historically, the term "corporal punishment" has been used in legal scholarship to describe physical punishment. Black's Law Dictionary, for example, has an entry for corporal punishment, but not physical punishment. This article from the Georgetown Law Journal, this article from the University of Illinois Law Review, this article from the William Mitchell Law Review, this article from the Akron Law Review, and this article from the American University Law Review all favor the term "corporal punishment," though they occasionally use the term "physical punishment" synonymously. Other dictionaries, like the Cambridge English Dictionary, have an entry for corporal punishment, but not for physical punishment. Likewise, David M. Walker's Oxford Companion to Law has an entry for "corporal punishment," but not for "physical punishment." -- Notecardforfree (talk) 16:43, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Another question is whether having a stand-alone list for navigational purposes helps more than the existing Category:Physical punishments. Lists that fill a navigational or development function are often kept regardless of notability, according to Notability. —Coconutporkpie (talk) 20:29, 1 December 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.