Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pierre Picault (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. Spartaz Humbug! 04:55, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Pierre Picault
AfDs for this article: 
 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Recently, User:NickOrnstein recreated the Pierre Picault article a year after its successful AfD, making no attempt to improve or change the article and not addressing the major problem ie. the lack of reliable, independent, third-party sources that make non-trivial references to the individual. His version was so similar to the old one, even despite the fact that Picault had died in the meantime, that CorenSearchBot tagged it as a possible copyvio of a Wikipedia mirror of the deleted version. Despite these versions being essentially the same, User:Juliancolton declined the speedy (I did not speedy it myself, as I was involved in the deletion discussion the first time) saying that they were too different to apply under the G4 criteria of WP:SPEEDY. I tried to get this resolved at WP:ANI before coming here, but I was ignored under the new system. So here we are. My issues are the same as the last time I nominated this, it was deleted the last time, and a bot thinks they are similar enough to be copy violations. Cheers, CP 17:03, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep – Sorry to say, based on his death. As shown here, I believe Mr. Picault generated just enough media coverage to establish notability under our guidelines.  Thanks. ShoesssS Talk 17:14, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Those search results have five articles: three of them are Jean-Pierre Picault, who has nothing to do with Pierre Picault and the other two mention him in a sentence. How does that meet WP:N's requirement of multiple, non-trivial, reliable sources? Cheers, CP 17:35, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * As France's last surviving French veteran of World War I, in and of itself should have qualified as notable. Added that before his death he was France’s oldest native son, I believe make s him a shooo-in.  Likewise, I believe the first AFD was closed prematuraly and should have been relisted to generate more input.  Thanks. ShoesssS Talk 17:46, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * But it doesn't qualify as notable unless there are sources; that's what the guidelines say. We can't just subjectively decide who is notable is who is not or else the guidelines become irrelevant. The French government didn't deem him important enough given his length of service - it's not Wikipedia's job to tell them that they're wrong, whether or not they are. You can argue the value/meaning of the sources in terms of WP:N but without sources, there's nothing to argue. We'd like him to meet the threshold, but I don't see any evidence other than personal feelings that he should be notable. I'm very open to a good argument that he should be kept, but without sources that should not happen. Forgive me for arguing this strongly, but I really feel like our interpretations of what is notable has to take a back seat to the guidelines. And I guess I'm just trying to understand myself... I apologize if I sound like I'm attacking you, that's not my intention. Cheers, CP 01:41, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
 * What? - The write-ups in creditable and verifiable sources state he was the last surviving World War 1 veteran as of last year. What does the French Government not given his length of service have to do with your argument?  Length of service and when served are two different and distigent facts.  With regards to "...interpretations of what is notable taking (sic) a backseat to guidelines", guidlines are just that interpretations and not policy. ShoesssS Talk 02:24, 26 August 2009 (UTC)


 * strong keep. Being the last publicly-announced WWI veteran death in France means that Mr. Picault will be notable unless another claimant after him comes forward. That has not happened and it's been almost a year. Ryoung 122 00:55, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Keep He is a WW1 veteran and the last surviving French one.How is he not notable?72.155.236.5 (talk) 00:19, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.