Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pim Balkestein


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete without prejudice to recreation. Seraphim&hearts; Whipp  17:45, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Pim Balkestein

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Football player who fails WP:ATHLETE as he has never played in a fully professional league. Was already prodded, but removed by article's creator with the rationale "Deletion objected because personality will have played in professional league within 60 days, so would just have to be re-added", which of course is a complete violation of WP:CRYSTAL. пﮟოьεԻ  5  7  18:57, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football related deletions. пﮟოьεԻ   5  7  18:57, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete without prejudice, player fails notability at WP:ATHLETE having never played in a fully-pro league. Saying "he'll play within 60 days" is Crystal ballery, should the player play for a fully-pro team against another, article should be recreated. --Jimbo[online] 20:15, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. GiantSnowman 02:42, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete. Then recreate if and when notable. This is not the first case like this and won't be the last. May qualify as WP:SNOWBALL. Rambo's Revenge (talk)  11:48, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment - he has made 1 appearance in the KNVB Cup this season. ugen64 (talk) 16:46, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It appears he played for Jong Heerenveen (the reserve team) when they defeated ADO Den Haag (an Eerste Divisie side) 3-1 in the KNVB Cup, from here (it's not a reliable source but I did some searching on the KNVB official website and couldn't find match reports). So I'm not sure what you do when a non-fully-professional-league side defeats a fully-professional-league in a cup tournament.... ugen64 (talk) 16:53, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * more reliable source ugen64 (talk) 16:55, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * According to WikiProject Football/Notability a match with only one professional team still fails notability. Rambo's Revenge (talk)  21:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The main question is: Do Jong Heerenveen play in a fully professional league? Certainly in the case of British football, we do not regard the academy or reserve leagues as fully professional. However, do we transfer this to Holland, where reserve/youth teams play in the national cup? пﮟოьεԻ   5  7  21:47, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd say yes. For all I can see, Jong Heerenveen player are as notable as any other amateur side. The fact they accidentally played against a professional team in the Netherlands Cup does not award the team fully professional status. --Angelo (talk) 15:38, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, but I do wonder - Jong Heerenveen side actually progressed further than their parent club (Heerenveen were knocked out in the same round that Jong Heerenveen beat ADO Den Haag). In this case I guess that's not too relevant, since the reserves got defeated in the next round, but what about years in which the reserve team actually won the cup final? It has happened once or twice (the most notable recent case is when Hertha BSC's reserves reached the DFB Pokal final in 1993) - what happens then? One odd case happened in 1987-88, when the Ajax first team got knocked out in the 2nd round, but their reserves progressed to the quarterfinals (beating 3 top flight teams in the process) - so the coach decided to play his first-team squad for the reserve team during the cup match (and naturally they lost). ugen64 (talk) 16:29, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete without prejudice per nom - he'll have an article, oooh, round about mid-August. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:14, 19 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.