Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pinocchio's Pizza


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Seraphimblade Talk to me 00:57, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

Pinocchio's Pizza

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This undoubtedly notable locally business does not meet our notability standards. There is only one discussion in detail, and that comes from a college newspaper, which are seldom held to be WP:RS. It does not even appear to make WP:GNG, as there is only the one discussion in detail and it is from a sketchy source. It certainly does not make WP:ORG, esp WP:CORPDEPTH, as it does not have any sources (other than a Facebook post) from outside Metro Boston. John from Idegon (talk) 20:39, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

I hear where you're coming from, but here's why I think it's a notable article.
 * I mentioned that Sally's Apizza and Modern Apizza both have their own Wikipedia pages, with comparable (or perhaps slightly worse) quality of citations. I would say that Pinocchio's is comparably notable as those two pizzerias in New Haven. But I actually think the better example is the Tasty Sandwich Shop (The Tasty), which is in many ways comparable to Pinocchio's:
 * Both are famous as Harvard institutions, and in particular famous late-night institutions.
 * Both are part of the story of the gentrification of Harvard Square (The Tasty closing, Pinocchio's moving), a well documented phenomenon.
 * Both are famous, in part, because of regular references in literature and film (Good Will Hunting mentioned The Tasty, Suits and The Social Network mention/show Pinocchio's, among a bunch of others for both).
 * Both have citations that over-index on Boston but include some national coverage.
 * I would say your general point on student newspapers would be true, but The Harvard Crimson is actually used quite often as a reference on Wikipedia, so it seems to command the necessary credibility.
 * I do think there needs to be more color and detail, that can be worked on as more people see and add to the page. You will, however, find it referenced in national publications, sometimes in the context of the pizza but usually in the context of Harvard.

With all that said, I appreciate your thoughtfulness here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CarlCarlsonIV (talk • contribs) 21:21, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment - First,, it is very important that you sign your comments here (and elsewhere too). It is also important that you read the instructions for participating at AfD linked at the top right of the page.  Once you do, you will see two things.  First, you have not actually !voted here yet, and also, that WP:OTHERSTUFF is seldom a persuasive argument here.  Fame =/= notability. John from Idegon (talk) 22:54, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Noted. for the reasons outlined above, I think we should keep this article. CarlCarlsonIV (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 01:57, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Italy-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 22:43, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 22:43, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Massachusetts-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 22:43, 4 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Comment. We are obligated to search for alternatives to deletion (see wp:ATD).  This place is not just any pizza joint, it is apparently on Harvard Square.  As for Times Square and maybe the Ginza and some other specific commercial hubs, perhaps there is room/need for a list or table of commercial establishments there.  These are landmarks visited by millions, literally, cumulatively.  How about a list-table entry for this, as a merge/redirect target, within the Harvard Square article?


 * Also, Harvard Square Historic District (covered in Harvard Square article) is listed on the National Register of Historic Places. Its NRHP nomination document can't be linked directly, but is accessible by clicking on the small image "NR" at this MACRIS page.   It doesn't mention pizza AFAICT, but it lists 66 Winthrop and 69 Winthrop and other addresses on Winthrop (see page 25), but not 74 Winthrop, the stated address for Pinocchio's Pizza.  However Pinocchio's may in fact be in a historic building which is a contributing building to the district.  Street address numbers change sometimes and buildings are often listed at multiple street addresses.  Can someone who knows the place consult the NR document and try to sort this out? --Doncram (talk) 00:27, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 00:57, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment To the above, if you look at the PDF in the INV tab on the MACRIS site and go to page 35, the building highlighted on the corner of Winthrop and Boylston (now JFK) Streets is the Pinocchio's building. Not sure why it doesn't show up in the directory, however—maybe it's a building that has two different address, and the Pinocchio's address isn't the one they selected. That's speculative though. The pictures between 37-45 aren't great, but pictures 13 and 14 do pretty clearly put the location in the technical boundaries of Harvard Square. Eddy23 (talk) 10:22, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
 * , - if you are advocating a redirect to Harvard Square as an ATD, please articulate that. I would be happy to support that as an ATD. John from Idegon (talk) 10:34, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Sure, then merge/redirect. --Doncram (talk) 12:50, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep, I do think it's notable enough and has enough independent media coverage (among other things) to back that up. --Eddy23 (talk) 22:30, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep The college newspaper isn't the only sources, by any means. Also, college papers generally pass WP:RS, the main problem with them is in independence rather than reliability, which isn't an issue when it comes to a pizza place. Smartyllama (talk) 14:36, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment. I have started a sockpuppet investigation, so please wait until it is closed. Thanks, w umbolo   ^^^  21:16, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   10:20, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete Local reviews of a local restaurant do not provide notability. No indication this is anything beyond a run-of-the-mill restaurant popular among local residents, and "best cheap eats" listings do not count. Reywas92Talk 18:53, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete Does not meet WP:ORG standards for basic notability: the subject of significant coverage in multiple reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject (emphasis mine). I can't find any coverage that is more than a passing mention or a couple of sentences that basically say "it's a pizza parlor". Some of the cited articles do not even mention Pinocchio's. Also seems to be a heavy reliance on Mark Zuckerberg's dining habits in the cited articles, but again, WP:ORG reminds us that "An organization is not notable merely because a notable person or event was associated with it."Glendoremus (talk) 20:43, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete Seems to be only routine coverage in local news. Not enough for GNG or NCORP. MB 00:39, 27 October 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.