Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pizzeria Napoli (Baghdad) (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. &mdash;Darkwind (talk) 02:00, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Pizzeria Napoli (Baghdad)
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Seems to be notable for what amounts to a single event but, really, this is trivial stuff. Sitush (talk) 15:00, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete - interesting trivia, but little possibility of it becoming ency. article.Pincrete (talk) 18:56, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Iraq-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 03:59, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 04:00, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 04:00, 30 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep - additional sources, , , . These are English only of course - I'm assuming more sources would be available in Arabic. I'm not sure if it's still open, but a pizza place that gets profiles in Time and Newsweek is surely notable.  —Мандичка YO 😜 04:04, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I have been profiled in The Sunday Times but am not notable. I can't see the contents of your second source but your third source is little more than a passing mention and includes the statement that Pizzeria Napoli is just one of many restaurants that have opened since the ousting of Saddam Hussein - that is what is being discussed really, not the PN itself. Your fourth source is the single event ans, really, isn't much of a mention anyway. Have you ever wondered why those passing mentions occur? Could it be that the owner is just a bit more savvy with soundbites, and perhaps even the only local shop owner who can converse with the foreign journalists? Why does the article have problem attracting incoming links? - Sitush (talk) 06:39, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Nobody is arguing you are notable. We're pointing out that a one-man hole-in-the-wall pizza joint profiled in Time and Newsweek and books is notable. No, I've never stopped to wonder how he conspired to get all this press, or how a man described as speaking "a little English" was able to be a "bit more savvy with soundbites" than the other millions of people around trying to survive in a war zone. Sounds like something I should devote a lot of time to mulling over.  Maybe he was the one who started the rumor that Iraq had WMD to get the U.S. to invade so he could finally start a restaurant and finally get his name in Time. Wow. Can we get it speedily deleted as as M1: all references fraudulently obtained through Machiavellian scheme?  —Мандичка YO 😜 13:49, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
 * No need for the snark - I've no idea what I've done to piss you off but you should drop it, otherwise you're likely to get it back in spades. This article has existed for years and as of today still has no links from other articles. We've got nearly five million of them and not one that refers to this, not even a list article. The chances of that happening are pretty slim but among the other orphans from that period is another seemingly useless food and drink article. You'd do a better job of convincing me if you provided the relevant info from the book that I say I cannot see. I'm assuming that you have read it to verify that it isn't just a passing mention. - Sitush (talk) 15:10, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Besides most of those sources being far beyond the scope of "passing mention", there is no WP:NOTNOTABLEIFSAVVYWITHSOUNDBITES rule which I suppose would say "If a topic passes WP:GNG but is also "media savvy", then that disqualifies them from having an article." --Oakshade (talk) 01:24, 4 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep - The amount of very substantial coverage spanning years and from multiple nation sources as demonstrated by Мандичка  indicates easily passing the threshold of notability.  How the nom feels about their own notability in relation to coverage given to them is irrelevant to this discussion (but I would note the last time I came across an editor claiming they are not notable due to comparable coverage they received to a topic they afd'd, it turns out they did have an article that they never challenged). --Oakshade (talk) 23:30, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep Not every pizzeria gets mentioned in Time and Newsweek. This is a notable restaurant. Eat me, I'm a red bean (take a huge bite) 00:41, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I do wish you lot really understood WP:PROMO and that one of the key beauties of Wikipedia is the links between articles. But obviously I am going to be on the wrong side of this rabid inclusionist discussion. I fucking despair. - Sitush (talk) 01:32, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Nice WP:CIVIL violation. We're all aware of WP:PROMO and that doesn't apply here.  The links are in the categories.  While it would be a nice "beauty" to have more, that's not an article requirement.  If you truly feel that notability guidelines were not adhered to and this was kept due to "rabid inclusionist discussion", then you can bring it up for deletion review where you're guaranteed to have much wider community input.  --Oakshade (talk) 05:20, 5 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:1E. All the sources mention it peripherally to the suicide bomb blast. This is not a 5-Star Mitchelin joint. It is clear that some of the 'keep' voters are not familar with Wikipedia policy/guidelines. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:25, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
 * WP:1E is a shortcut to "People notable for only one event." How is a pizza restaurant a person and how does very in-depth coverage from multiple international sources spanning at least five years "one event"? I would become familiar with the guidelines you cite before attacking other editors for not being familiar with them.--Oakshade (talk) 16:09, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Stop splitting hairs, you know perfecty well what is meant here. The restaurant is known only for being damaged in a bob blast and absolutely nothing else whatsoever. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 16:15, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Splitting hairs? You're attacking editors for not being familiar with guidelines and then you cite one that has absolutely nothing to do with this topic.  You cited WP:1E which only applies to people being notable for one event.  A restaurant is not people.  And the coverage which is spanning years about this place covering years before and after the nearby bomb blast is not one event.  That's not splitting hairs but pointing out your misunderstanding of the basics of the guideline you cited.--Oakshade (talk) 16:23, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
 * And by the way, the in-depth Time coverage is from 2003. The "bob blast" occurred in 2004. How was it notable for only one event if that event hadn't taken place? --Oakshade (talk) 16:57, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.  The book notes: "The hand-tossed, wood oven-baked pizzas at Pizzeria Napoli were on a par with anything you'd find in Italy. Napoli was run by Walid Khalid, who had worked at a pizzeria next to the Trevi Fountain in Rome for two years. He returned to Baghdad a month after liberation to introduce real pizza to his homeland. Even if Iraqis didn't warm to pizzas, he figured he'd have more than enough customers among the thousands of Americans who had descended on Baghdad. He rented a space in a strip of shops on Yafa Street, just north of the Green Zone, and set out to create an authentic Italian eatery. He hired bricklayers to build a wood-fired pizza oven. He found a dairy near the Abu Ghraib prison that was willing to make mozzarella according to his specifications. He struck a deal with a farmer who grew the same sort of juicy tomatoes you'd find in Tuscany, and he cultivated basil and oregano in his garden. His brother was recruited to take orders. [Several more paragraphs.]"    <li></li> </ol>There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Pizzeria Napoli to pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Cunard (talk) 05:56, 8 July 2015 (UTC)</li></ul>
 * The sources span from 2003 to 2011. A book by journalist Rajiv Chandrasekaran provides two pages of coverage about the subject, going into detail about the pizzeria's history. The pizzeria received coverage from Time (2003), Stars and Stripes (2008), Newsweek (2011), and The National (Abu Dhabi) (2011). The sustained media coverage and the book coverage clearly demonstrate that Pizzeria Napoli is notable per Notability. Cunard (talk) 05:56, 8 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep Notable enough for larger coverage including being a highlight within the U.S. State Department and Washington Post.  Great pizza within the Green Zone.  Heyyouoverthere (talk) 07:28, 8 July 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.