Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pobé Mengao shooting


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. On pure notability grounds there was clear consensus that event sourcing was sufficient. There's a number of non strict-policy arguments made. There was some discussion as to whether it must/should be merged with the other attacks of that month, but significant disagreement with that. As it stands, the article is agreed to be capable of self-standing. That doesn't rule out a potential merge, but that can be had in a separate future discussion. Nosebagbear (talk) 23:16, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Pobé Mengao shooting

 * – ( View AfD View log  Mengao shooting Stats )
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions. 11S117 (talk) 02:33, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Terrorism-related deletion discussions. 11S117 (talk) 01:31, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Terrorism-related deletion discussions. 11S117 (talk) 01:31, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

Non-notable topic. 11S117 (talk) 01:32, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Articles for deletion/Log/2019 October 28.  —cyberbot I   Talk to my owner :Online 17:49, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep - a mass shooting in which terrorists killed 16 civilians. That's easily notable enough for an article. If it happened in the West, many people would have edited the article, it would be major international news & no-one would question its notability. There having been several major terrorist attacks in Burkina Faso recently doesn't reduce their notability. Terrorist attacks are even more frequent in Afghanistan, but we don't delete them due to being commonplace there. Jim Michael (talk) 18:05, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment - Then merge it with the two other articles. There is two many articles for Burkina Faso attacks this month. Just merge the three articles and we don't have to delete this article. 11S117 (talk) 01:33, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
 * We don't merge articles simply because there are others in the same country during the same month. We have 6 articles about terrorist attacks that took place in Afghanistan in July 2019. Jim Michael (talk) 18:54, 28 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep - looks like substantial coverage. Reported by Reuters and AFP, picked up by the NY Times. Guettarda (talk) 21:42, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep - Lot of victims. – Illegitimate Barrister (talk • contribs), 00:08, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Procedural Keep - no concrete deletion rational put forward, I guess WP:NOTNEWS would be the most obvious, but I'm not sure if the article fails or passes that. Also as noted this AFD was not correctly formatted. Also I think it is a bit iffy that an Islamophobic attack that occurred the same day and resulted in only 2 injured is deemed notable, but an attack where 16 people die is questioned? Inter&#38;anthro (talk) 12:28, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
 * It's one of many examples of WP's Westerncentrism. If this attack had happened in the West &/or the victims were Westerners, this would be major international news, the article would be many times longer & it would have been edited by many people.
 * How can a terrorist mass shooting - killing 16 civilians - not be easily notable enough for an article? Jim Michael (talk) 20:52, 29 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Is Afghanistan a "Western" country? You are saying And you are also saying . I think we follow sources. It has nothing to do with whether an incident is "Western" or not. Bus stop (talk) 18:04, 30 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Obviously, Afghanistan isn't Western at all.
 * I maintain that WP is very Western-centric, which is clear. To use Afghanistan as an example, notice how short many of our articles on bombings in Afghanistan - with double-digit death tolls - are. Imagine how long the articles would be - and how many times more editors there would be - had the attacks taken place in the West. Examples include: 2019 Ghazni bombing, Kabul University bombing, 25 July 2019 Kabul bombings, July 2019 Farah bombing, 2019 Qalat bombing & 2019 Jalalabad suicide bombing. Far fewer people edit them, because far fewer people are interested in them.
 * You've commented here without stating keep or delete. Jim Michael (talk) 01:10, 31 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Different parts of the world generate information differently. In some countries there is a vastly more information available on incidents than there is in other countries. We can only write an article based on the availability of information. When little information is available it may be better to combine articles. Merged articles have the advantage of having all the available information in one place. Is there any inherent advantage in having a freestanding article such as Pobé Mengao shooting, one sentence long, when it can be merged with Burkina Faso mosque attack, perhaps changing the title to 2019 Terrorism in Burkina Faso? Bus stop (talk) 01:28, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I disagree with merging articles on different attacks unless we know that they're closely related, such as 2 and 5 September 2019 Kabul bombings (same city, month & terrorist group). An article being short doesn't mean that it should be merged, deleted or is insufficiently notable. Jim Michael (talk) 04:52, 31 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Is there any advantage in having it as a freestanding article rather than having a WP:REDIRECT take the reader to the exact paragraph of an article combining this incident with another incident? (I didn't say it was or it should be .) Bus stop (talk) 06:02, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
 * It's not suitable for a redirect due to it not being known to be closely related enough to any other WP article.
 * I was expecting that more info about this mass shooting (which group did it, action against them by the authorities etc.) to be reported by the media. It hasn't, and this is more evidence of what I said on Talk:2019 Halle synagogue shooting. The media, general public & WP readers/editors take a lot more notice & care a lot more when the target is a religious building &/or the people inside it. 2019 Kabul mosque bombing is many times longer than this article, despite having a far lower death toll. Jim Michael (talk) 18:27, 31 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Jim you made those Afghanistan post. No one asked for that you made it yourself. I'm fine with you deleting those Afghan attacks. Also if you want to talk about Western-Centralism you know this is the English version of Wikipedia right. There's tons of Wikis you can make for their country for their language. Another thing is many mass shootings in America are WP:REDIRECT you wanna know why, it's because their not that important enough. Like this attack, Burkina Faso is in war right now that's why there are so many attacks. Now please either merge it or delete it because your arguments are invalid. 11S117 (talk) 01:33, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
 * All the terrorist attacks I mentioned are easily notable enough for articles of their own. None of the are anything like legitimate military engagements. A terrorist mass shooting or bombing against a civilian target which has a double-figure death toll is easily notable enough for its own article, even if it takes place during a war.
 * Being the English WP doesn't mean that we should be Western-centric. WP is meant to avoid biases.
 * I can't communicate in any Asian languages, so I can't create the articles in question in any of those languages. Jim Michael (talk) 22:52, 31 October 2019 (UTC)


 * I don't know why you are going on about Wikipedia being . Do you find articles that are only one sentence long pertaining to "Western" countries? That is the problem with Pobé Mengao shooting—it is only one sentence long. An article can be created that contains all of the 2019 terrorist incidents in Burkina Faso. Wouldn't that accomplish the same thing as one freestanding article on Pobé Mengao shooting? One such article may even be more useful, because a reader would be able to glance at a table of contents and quickly grasp the state of violence in that country in this year, and if they were only interested in one such incident, they just go to that section. Bus stop (talk) 00:36, 1 November 2019 (UTC)


 * I understand you want this story out there. But the article is only one sentence and it's already jotted down in the current events portion of Wikipedia. Knowing how short the article is can't that be enough? Honestly though if you want to make these articles go back a few years and make some articles for the Syrian and Iraq attacks. 2014-2017 need some love too because many articles that could've been made aren't. 11S117 (talk) 10:33, 28 October 2019 (UTC)


 * If it's to be merged, it should be into Terrorism in Burkina Faso. Jim Michael (talk) 17:23, 1 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep If 16 people were killed anywhere in the US but Detroit it would be notable. Probably in Detroit too, but we had 8 people killed in a barber shop and people forgot about it in 2 days. I am probably one of less than 10 people who didn't have family members killed in the November 2013 barber shop massacre who still remembers that horrid event.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:05, 3 November 2019 (UTC)


 * At WP:NOTE we find "This is not a guarantee that a topic will necessarily be handled as a separate, stand-alone page." The question here as I see it is whether or not this should be a one-sentence stand-alone article or a component of an article on a broader subject. This is a consequence of different levels of reporting found in different parts of the world. The journalism industry would likely be in high gear if this transpired in the USA but our articles are subject to the availability of information. If an article on a broader subject with WP:REDIRECTs to individual paragraphs can be created this may be our preferable option. Bus stop (talk) 03:30, 3 November 2019 (UTC)


 * —I don't find a barbershop shooting involving 8 deaths. Do you have a link to the news story? Bus stop (talk) 14:15, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Three of the ten people shot were killed. I hadn't heard of it until I looked it up online today. Jim Michael (talk) 20:14, 3 November 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.