Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pokémon Brown


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was delete. Nandesuka 17:24, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Pokémon Brown
This is a fan hack. I'm pretty sure we mostly don't list those for notability reasons. It says it's widely known as the most popular Pokémon ROM hack, but provides no evidence of this and that isn't exactly a notable category by itself. It gets about 1500 Google hits, but most seem to just be lists of hacked ROMS and the number-two ranked one was the Wikipedia article. Considering the article has no categories and there are few links to it from other articles, this is impressive. Ace of Sevens 11:17, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been added to the list of CVG deletions. SevereTireDamage 23:30, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete, we cannot give every fan-made, ripped game an article. Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 11:28, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. - CheNuevara 12:36, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Strong Delete Per nom. Th ε Halo Θ 12:47, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete ROM hacks. Andrew Lenahan -  St ar bli nd  13:22, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep and Remake Only successful ROM hacks get any publicity. This one isn't an exception. Brown is a FULL game hack with a new storyline(not talking about new map), that's why it deserves to live. It should be more complete though, marking it as stub will be an adequate measure. Bigdrunkguy 14:59, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete as original research. Cites Coolboyman as its creator and, oddly, Coolboyman as the source for the claim it's the most popular hack.  Google only has 184 unique hits for "Pokemon Brown", raising question of how notable the hack actually is.  And welcome to User:Bigdrunkguy  for finding your way unerringly to this article for your very first edit!  Tychocat 16:29, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't bash me because of it being my first contribution. I was looking for new Pokemon hacks, that's how I came here. Pokemon Brown is widely known hack - the reason of it being listed on few websites is that ROM hacks are considered illegal by many site/forum admins. The fact of this hack being full rehash(instead of few cosmetic/text changes) is enough to consider it as worth of Wiki-entry. Isn't Wikipedia a place to stop "What the **** is ? Haven't heard anything about it."-like questions? If yes, no deletion is required. The hack is there and everyone can play it. Bigdrunkguy 17:10, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment Can someone give me examples of fan-made ROM hacks that have pages on Wikipedia? Danny Lilithborne 20:19, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Like this? Mario_Adventure Xyzman 21:26, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot. I'm just gonna register No Vote on this. Danny Lilithborne 21:57, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

User:Koolboyman 22:12, 26 July 2006 (UTC) I also did some searches for my hack, and here are a bunch of results of people mentioning my hack: http://chronotron.wordpress.com/my-web-presence/ http://www.zophar.net/hacks/gb.html http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/134/ http://www.trsrockin.com/glitchcity.html http://www.zophar.net/tech/files/gbpointers.txt http://saybox.co.uk/shout.php?action=display&user=coolcracker http://emu.panoramainternetu.pl/content.html?cs=inf_a&catid=%7C7%7C1%7C4%7C&id_a=421159 http://www.dgemu.com/gameboy-list--desc-downloads.html http://www.dohgames.com/bb/archive/index.php/t-100.html http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:8KNH6U0WwL4J:www.pokemonstation.com/forums/viewtopic.php%3Fp%3D4015%26sid%3D05def15bd20cd042293f34ac481cec13+%22Pokemon+Brown%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=38 http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:SPWpQnx55MkJ:www.nhacks.com/archive/index.php/t-4482.html+%22Pokemon+Brown%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=40 http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:yBGkEUoqcBgJ:gizwic.com/board/thread.php%3Fid%3D5885+%22Pokemon+Brown%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=50 http://www.emuboards.com/invision/lofiversion/index.php/t13138.html http://forums.supercheats.com/topic.php?topic=11761&page=2 http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:7jWtqp-Au48J:www.mxemu.com/romshare.php%3Fkeyword%3DPokemon+%22Pokemon+Brown%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=61 http://forums.supercheats.com/topic.php?topic=72&page=1 Quote from there: "their not fake, they exist but I'm tellin you their so boring.......just stick with the origanal nintendo games, except pokemon brown, that was the only fun hacked game!" http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:3s6KBUCQPCYJ:planetemu.net/%3Fsection%3Droms%26dat%3D191%26action%3Dshowrom%26id%3D209973+%22Pokemon+Brown%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=67 http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:h0-emkUiUAYJ:www.zemula.net/forums/index.php%3Fshowtopic%3D1003%26mode%3Dlinear%26view%3Dfindpost%26p%3D5452+%22Pokemon+Brown%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=69 http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:klPoQi4zknoJ:www.revolutioncommunity.info/forum/showthread.php%3Fgoto%3Dlastpost%26t%3D95+%22Pokemon+Brown%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=89 Quote: "The only Completed Hack that are worth playing and is amazing is Pokemon Brown Made by Coolboyman for Red Version. There are someother hacks that have been made which are Ok but not that good. You can always Download a Demo of a Hack that is being made. Get them Here http://pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=14636" http://pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=1162 - My first mention of the hack, that alone has 1,710 views. http://www.spielerboard.de/archive/index.php/t-121727 http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/search.php?kind=a&terms=ForteMaster http://mx.msnusers.com/kagomesadenocrom/romsgameboycolor.msnw http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:idYQ6jCD_qkJ:www.ultimateddl.com/23.php+%22Pokemon+Brown%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=119 http://cartmic.8bit.co.uk/midhacks/hacks.htm http://pokigry.w.interia.pl/hacki.htm
 * I decided to look into this by Googleling "pokemon brown;" over 2 million results came in, put obviously these are not all about this supposedly "famous" ROM hack. (when you put it in quotes, the number reduces to around 1.5k) The first result was this site, in which Pokemon Brown is on a list of ROM hacks. So, it exsists at least... but that was probably obvious anyway.
 * There are some fansites here and there that talk about it, so within the ROM hacking and [possibly] Pokemon communities, it is known... well-known? Known at least.  Unfortunetly, notability within communitiesis difficult to research unless you're part of the group youself (in this case, the  more advanced Pokemon/ROM hacking communities).
 * Meh. Delete as non-notable software.  I'm still open to mind-changers, however. (not that it'll really matter; no one can be swayed when it comes to AFD) I commend you for your efforts KBM, so you get a weak keep out of me, but a keep nonetheless.  It's too bad though; there are too many delete votes in to really make a difference now.  I think with some cleanup it could be better... short... but better. -- gakon5 00:52, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment As a person that spent some of his life in ROM-hacking, I'd say that every finished and standalone hack is notable. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia meaning that we should have as much verifiable knowledge as possible. If I'm a new person to Pokemon ROM hacks and wish to find out more about them, then I don't have to know about Zophar's domain. All I need is to come here and search for it. That's why there should be a common page about all GB/GBC/GBA hacks (like this one for NES) but single notable hacks like Pokemon Brown also deserve to have its page.  xyzman 11:41, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment. How is the article verifiable?  Where are the sources?  --ColourBurst 18:27, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep, Hello, im the creator of this hack. Aparently your having problems with notability.  Let me explain something, I had a website 2 years ago when I released this hack, and it had this hack on it.  I kept track of the downloads and the downloads were high, because this wasnt any ordinary hack. This was a hack that I put almost 2 years work into, and I'm working on a sequal right now thats almost 3 years in development.  This hack is HIGHLY notable in the Pokemon Rom hacking Community. Just ask anyone if they know of a Pokemon Brown, and most of them will say yes.  Google hits mean nothing, especially since people have made jokes about different versions of Pokemon games like "Pokemon poo Brown" or some sort.  Fan sites have listed this hack as downloadable,  and if that isnt notible, I don't know what is.  And if this gets deleted, I've lost all faith in this site, because aparently if this would have to be deleted, and all articles shared the same fate as this in which they had question of notability, the only 2 articles that would be up on this site would be Georg W. Bush and Paris Hilton, go figure. And honestly, have you all actually tried PLAYING the hack instead of judging it as another hack? Although I do agree this article needs to be spruced up a bit. User:Koolboyman 1:06, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * This hack is HIGHLY notable in the Pokemon Rom hacking Community. Source? Dark Shikari 17:26, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * ''Look around at Pokecommunity.com's rom hacking boad. You have to register in order to view it. They have a hacking section where most of the hackers hang out and talk. Do a search on Pokemon Brown and you'll find result 'o plenty. User:Koolboyman 12:56, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Strong delete. Not official, not notable, not widely used, not encyclopaedic, not suitable.  Proto ::  type  09:52, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Strong delete. As above. +Fin 13:24, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete, no published sources. Fails WP:V. Recury 16:36, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete with all the sympathies to the hack author. Even if it's "notable within ROM hacking community", and you could prove that it exists or something, I believe the threshold of inclusion for all kinds of mods or hacks is very high - in this case, just show that yes, tons and tons of people play Pokémon ROM hacks, and yes, everyone who does that has played this one. Where's the claims of bazillions of downloads? Where's the game mag article? In short, sorry, no Wikipedia article until I read about this thing from Pelit or their website. Meanwhile, this could warrant an external link somewhere or something =) --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 10:25, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment Magazines dont really mention ROM hacks last time I checked. Anyways, like I said in the previous comment, search pokecommunity.com, and you need to register first. Pokecommunity has the highest ammount of Pokemon ROM hackers, and do a simple search and you'll find lots of results for Pokemon Brown.  And ask around if you want, people will know about it.  I'm not going on an internet scavenger hunt to find out every site that mentions my specific hack, because pokecommunity.com is enough proof alone.  Unfortunetly the site I hosted in 2004 is down now so I dont have _proof_ that it was downloaded that much, but it was.  Not everyone who downloads it is going to comment on it.  User:Koolboyman 5:53, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Strong delete Smells like spam. Ryūlóng 21:44, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * 'Comment' How is this even remotly close to spam? THINK before you type next time alright, your just making yourself look bad.
 * keep seems notableenough, we wont run out of room, alternatively have a section on the pokemon page featuring such hacks... Owwmykneecap 23:27, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment Here is a list of webstie that mention MY SPECIFIC HACK, Pokemon Brown that I just scanned over with Google.

Is this enough proof of nobility, or do you want me to get more websites?? User:Koolboyman 22:29, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Withdrawn Okay, that's good enough for me. None of them are particularly major sites, but there are enough to make up for that.  There still need to be references in the actual article, though. Ace of Sevens 05:34, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment - You did check the sites listed? Koolboyman was quite literal that he found a bunch of sites that mention his hack, all are warez equivalents of catalog listings, and most say nothing more than give the download link.  Tychocat 06:26, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It's a very weak withdrawl. Some of them had a bit more.  Ace of Sevens 06:48, 28 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete doesn't pass WP:V and I don't see any sites above that pass WP:RS. Whispering 21:49, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.