Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pomegranate Producers and Exporters Association of Azerbaijan


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Bbb23 (talk) 18:44, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Pomegranate Producers and Exporters Association of Azerbaijan

 * – ( View AfD View log )

I've been looking at this page for a few days now. The association doesn't seem notable in the slightest. The user who created it,, is connected to the association (and has not declared a COI yet, even after it was mentioned in Administrators' noticeboard). I've made a lengthy analysis of the sources and external links in the article, which results in quite a few deadlinks, non-independent sources and other stuff. Nothing that makes me think this association meets WP:CORP.

~Styyx Talk? ^-^ 19:37, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions.  ~Styyx Talk? ^-^ 19:37, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Azerbaijan-related deletion discussions.  ~Styyx Talk? ^-^ 19:37, 18 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Gentlemen, I ask you to seriously consider this article from various angles, it is necessary to dive deeply into the subject under discussion. If some points in the significance are controversial or unclear, they should be discussed. Reliable references are many.
 * There are authoritative sources.
 * https://isni.org/isn/0000000478655314/
 * http://www.fruitnet.com/eurofruit/article/176960/azerbaijan-eyes-europe-for-pomegranates
 * https://www.freshplaza.fr/article/9059272/azerbaidjan-augmentation-des-exportations-de-grenades-en-2019/
 * http://files.eacce.org.ma/pj/%5B1540387328%5DAz_UE.pdf
 * https://president.az/articles/28610
 * https://www.dunya.com/sektorler/azerbaycanli-ureticilerden-turkiyeye-is-birligi-cagrisi-haberi-603832
 * https://www.cnnturk.com/dunya/azerbaycan-nari-unesconun-somut-olmayan-kulturel-miras-listesinde231220
 * https://komikli.net/azerbaycanli-ureticilerden-turkiyeye-is-birligi-daveti/
 * https://acikerisim.uludag.edu.tr/bitstream/11452/4642/1/Adil%20H%C3%9CSEYNOV.pdf
 * http://www.azpromo.az/news/view/azerbaijan-pomegranate-producers-and-exporters-association-held-a-session
 * https://www.eurofresh-distribution.com/news/eu-authorises-imports-pomegranate-azerbaijan
 * http://qafqazinfo.az/news/detail/azerbaycan-nari-dunyada-layiqince-taninmaga-baslayib-ferhad-qarasov-fotolar-209069
 * https://bbn.az/nar-istehsalcilari/
 * https://www.trend.az/business/economy/2908484.html
 * https://news.day.az/economy/1203130.html
 * http://vzglyad.az/news.php?id=155205
 * https://report.az/ru/apk/azerbaydzhan-nachinaet-eksport-granatov-v-polshu-i-latviyu/
 * https://news.day.az/economy/1182177.html
 * https://mir24.tv/news/16381563/korol-fruktov-associaciya-proizvoditelei-granata-prazdnuet-trehletie
 * https://haqqin.az/news/124594
 * The page has a Primary source that provides direct evidence of the facts — a document, statistics on the production of pomegranates, and export supplies. it is a significant organization, is one of the key areas of international cooperation in the economic sphere and one of the key factors affecting the productivity of agricultural crops.
 * Strong keep: ref. 1, ref. 2, ref. 3, ref. 4, ref. 5, ref. 6, ref. 7 In December 2018, "Azerbaijan Pomegranate" badge was established by the Association with the consent of the Office of the President of the Republic of Azerbaijan. The main purpose of the establishment of this badge is to reward the persons who have contributed and served in the development of pomegranate growing, Association activity in the Azerbaijan Republic.
 * History
 * "Azerbaijan Pomegranate" badge was established by the order of the chairman of the Association of pomegranate producers and exporters of Azerbaijan No. 01/2018, dated 3 September 2018 to reward the persons who contributed to the development of pomegranate growing. Patent and Trademark Expert Center of Intellectual Property Agency of the Azerbaijan Republic accepted the badge for examination on 31 January 2019.


 * Aims and objectives
 * The main purpose of the creation of this badge is to maintain the economic, cultural and social importance of the pomegranate by awarding the people who contribute and pay attention to the Azerbaijani pomegranate and services and work in the activities of the Association of Pomegranate Producers and Exporters (PPEAA). --Elshad Iman (Elşad İman) (talk) 21:48, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
 * You didn't read what I said did you? Some of the "sources" you listed are already in the analysis. You keep listing government sources, which are not independent. Others repeat the words of the president, which are primary sources. I also don't see the point of telling the history of the badge.   ~Styyx Talk? ^-^ 07:37, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I do not see any convincing reasons for deleting the article, there are signs of encyclopedic significance.--Elshad Iman (Elşad İman) (talk) 07:52, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Yeah apart from the fact that no independent and reliable sources cover the subject and that this is obviously promotional. ~Styyx Talk? ^-^ 08:27, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Do you consider these sources to be advertising? en news, tr news, ru news, books. --Elshad Iman (Elşad İman) (talk) 09:19, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Why should I care about sources that at best briefly mention the association? The sources need to about the association itself (at least detailed per WP:SIGCOV), independent, without repeating the words of the president of the association. ~Styyx Talk? ^-^ 09:37, 19 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete. Through these links, I can see no sources about the organization but annual pomegranate exportation of Azerbaijan. Furthermore, the article wouldn't fit in neither Economy of Azerbaijan nor Agriculture in Azerbaijan, in a case of merge. Since the links you mentioned above does not have any reliable source concentrating in the organization, but annual export of Azerbaijan, it doesn't cover WP:NGO so it should be deleted. — Pamphylian  ● 💬   09:42, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
 * In the course of the discussion here, it seems that you, Turkish-speaking Wikipedians, want to do your best to delete the article.--Elshad Iman (Elşad İman) (talk) 09:55, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, good that you got the point that we indeed delete articles about non-notable subjects. ~Styyx Talk? ^-^ 10:05, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Stop your actions, otherwise I will have to contact the admins. --Elshad Iman (Elşad İman) (talk) 10:10, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I'd be more than happy if you took this to AN/I. ~Styyx Talk? ^-^ 10:34, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Much of the content is about Pomegranate production in Azerbaijan, a notable topic with coverage in many books and academic papers, rather than specifically about this trade body, which does not appear notable. Wouldn't it be better, Elshad Iman, to rename and refactor the article to be about the more general topic? Phil Bridger (talk) 13:14, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
 * If the article contains ads, they should be erased. Where are the advertising signs? save a significant part to become an encyclopedic one, the organization has an authoritative source, and let the about Pomegranate production in Azerbaijan remain on the plans for the time being. Similar articles - Pomegranate, Goychay Pomegranate Festival --Elshad Iman (Elşad İman) (talk) 15:50, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I think you aren't getting me: whole existence of this article about a non-notable association is an ad. ~Styyx Talk? ^-^ 15:52, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
 * A non-profit organization is generally significant if it operates on a national or international scale.
 * A non-profit association, it can not be a priori advertising, this is an indisputable proof that the organization is significant.--Elshad Iman (Elşad İman) (talk) 16:04, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Of course non-profit associations can advertise. In my experience they do so almost as much as for-profit associations, and I have been on the boards of both. And the only proof that there can be that this organization is notable (which is the standard for having a Wikipedia article, not significance) can come from independent reliable sources. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:57, 19 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete - brief, passing mentions here and there; nothing towards WP:ORGDEPTH Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 21:31, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep I think this article can be saved. This is the only association in this field (at least in Azerbaijan), which is very popular and even has its own price. But let's be reasonable and reach a consensus. the non-profit association is an indisputable proof of the importance of the organization.--Araz Yaquboglu (talk) 13:41, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Hello I already expected you to eventually come (also surprised Toghrul R isn't here yet). So what you are saying is basically "the non-profit organization is notable because it's non-profit", confirm?  ~Styyx Talk? ^-^ 16:08, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
 * are you refering me as a troll or a sockpuppet? and please, can you elaborate why you haven't pinged me when making this kind of statement? Toghrul R (talk) 17:09, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
 * No no, never said that. I'm not on azwiki, but I'm pretty sure you two are well-respected sysops. It's just that whenever an AfD starts about an article created by Elshad İman, you always seem to pop up from somewhere, even on frwiki. ~Styyx Talk? ^-^ 17:56, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
 * , then please, stay focused on the thread, not me. My activity is not up for debate here, particularly in a discussion i'm not involved in. "Pop up from sonewhere" is not a good choice of sentence to address me — please, be POLITE. If anything, i've nominated Elshad's one of the articles in the past, you can check it if you will: here --Toghrul R (talk) 18:21, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I am focusing on the article, the full message contains a read-back of what was said by Araz Yaquboglu, just a brief mention of the "problem". But indeed, I'm not the nicest person when it comes to vote- and stealth canvassing. ~Styyx Talk? ^-^ 19:23, 20 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep A significant organization that regulates the key agricultural sector of a single state. I think that common sense will still prevail.--Erokhin (talk) 05:53, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
 * common sense says that the organization still needs to pass GNG and that there isn't any evidence to show that it's "significant" in the first place. ~Styyx Talk? ^-^ 08:39, 21 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep Hello, I stumbled upon this article and decided to express my take on it. This association is the only one in Azerbaijan in the given field. Thus I think it can be kept regardless the small problems in references. I think this weaknesses will be addressed and fixed in the near future. --leilahuseynova (talk) 12:42, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
 * that's based on which policy may I ask? Also I wouldn't classify the reference problem as "small". ~Styyx Talk? ^-^ 13:11, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I also don't think that problems in references are small. They are the whole point of this discussion, at least when it comes to what sources are available. I repeat my plea for interested editors to make this an article about Pomegranate production in Azerbaijan, which is an obviously notable subject, as opposed to this trade organisation, which can be mentioned in such an article if verified. Why are people so fixated on having an article about a trade organisation when we don't even have an article about the trade that it represents? Phil Bridger (talk) 18:22, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I believe that we should treat officially trade association as being notable if reliable sources, including official sources, prove that they exist and are indeed official trade association. I can't and any previous discussion on this, or any relevant guideline, but it seems to have been longstanding practice. I think this is a case where an argument based on WP:OSE is in fact valid, as a matter of precedent. I set before you Farmers' Organization Authority and its many sub cats such as Danish Christmas Tree Growers Association. A few examples, taken from that cat, are Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association, European Flavour Association, Bangladesh Knitwear Manufacturers and Exporters Association. These are all supported largely or solely through official sources. Ther should probably be an SNG on this topic, but I think this is as good a place as any to start one, as SNGs ususlly start with practice.--Elshad Iman (Elşad İman) (talk) 20:24, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
 * The essay strongly discourages you to use this in deletion discussions: "The nature of Wikipedia means that you cannot make a convincing argument based solely on what other articles do or do not exist" and "In general, these deletion debates should focus mainly on the nominated article". OSE is only valid when some stuff exist for a reason. Anyway, looking at the articles linked, all of them meet WP:GNG with their sourcing apart from the Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association. This is a reason to delete that article, not to keep this one. ~Styyx Talk? ^-^ 11:41, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Note that the GNG is a guideline (not a policy). At the head of the page, as for pretty much every guideline page, it says 's comments above seem to treat the GNG as absolute and unchallangable. There are a number of categories of articles where secondary sources are not required to support an article. An article about a legally recognized popular place, as per WP:GEOLAND may be acepted base purely oin primary sources that show its existence. An article about a member of a national legislature is acceptable even if we have no more than primary official sources that establish that the person existed and was a member, as is the case for many historical legislators, particularly those prior to 1900. Such articles are accepted merely on official records of membership in a legislature, and perhaps official records of speeches made or votes cast. Articles about radio stations are accepted based purely on primary sources showing that they have been licensed and operated. Articles about secondary and tertiary schools are often accepted based just on primary sources showing that they existed, and perhaps were official government schools. In short, not all categories of articles require independent secondary sources. I am suggesting that a non-profit associations and trade associations officially presented by a nation should be a similar category. I am arguing that a wide group of Wikipedia articles have been created and remained in existence on that basis, and that few of these have been challenged, and that in at least one case linked earlier in this discussion, such a challenge was made and rejected. There have, if I am not mistaken, been recent discussions at DRV suggesting that an AfD discussion may in good faith make a reasoned exception to the GNG, and that such local consensus will not be overturned by DRV. I am suggesting that a new SNG should be created to cover this case. --Elshad Iman (Elşad İman) (talk) 15:09, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
 * GEOLAND is an SNG, which says that populated places can get an article even if there aren't sources. Fair, so I'm not going to start an AfD about these kind places. In case there is no SNG, we look at GNG. But I got to stop you there, because we already have an SNG for non-profit organizations: WP:NONPROFIT. This association meets criteria #1, but doesn't meet criteria #2 (both have to be met). For this association to have an article on Wikipedia, there have to be independent, reliable sources that cover the organization in detail (Criteria #2 of WP:NONPROFIT). ~Styyx Talk? ^-^ 15:17, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
 * https://pdf.usaid.gov/pdf_docs/PA00XDXT.pdf -  independent, reliable source
 * Pomegranate Producers and Exporters Association – PPEAA was recently awarded a grant from the EU for the STEP (Support to Effective Pomegranate Production) project and has a plan to provide capacity building for pomegranate producers in the central regions of Azerbaijan through development of extension services in selected communities. The extension service centers will provide required technical assistance to selected communities’ pomegranate growers. PSA will closely collaborate with PPEAA to leverage the STEP project’s technical assistance on capacity building, organizational development, community-based, small-scale processing funding, and expertise on specific production and processing topics.
 * https://eu4azerbaijan.eu/az/narciliq-d%c9%99y%c9%99r-z%c9%99ncirind%c9%99-ustun-keyfiyy%c9%99tin-%c9%99ld%c9%99-edilm%c9%99si-v%c9%99-d%c9%99yisiklikl%c9%99r%c9%99-d%c9%99st%c9%99k/ - independent, reliable source
 * Pomegranate Producers and Exporters Association (PPEAA) supports pomegranate growers in the seven central regions of Azerbaijan and seeks support in organizational development and sustainability, as well as capacity building for its farmer members through improved extension services.
 * http://files.eacce.org.ma/pj/%5B1540387328%5DAz_UE.pdf -  independent, reliable source
 * https://www.eurofresh-distribution.com/news/eu-authorises-imports-pomegranate-azerbaijan - independent, reliable source
 * http://www.fruitnet.com/eurofruit/article/176960/azerbaijan-eyes-europe-for-pomegranates - independent, reliable source
 * https://www.freshplaza.com/article/9150290/azerbaijan-bilasuvar-region-exports-pomegranates-to-russia/ - independent, reliable source
 * https://atm.gov.az/en/news/215/minister-of-agriculture-held-online-video-conferen/
 * about association on official site.--Elshad Iman (Elşad İman) (talk) 15:59, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   11:00, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Note for closer: Since there has been some discussion from both sides of this debate about WP:NONPROFIT. This association meets criteria #1 and #2. I believe both sides would be very interested in how you evaluated the arguments and made the close decision.--Elshad Iman (Elşad İman) (talk) 11:43, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
 * The sources linked above are also related to Pomegranate production in Azerbaijan, so there is still no way this meets criteria #2. ~Styyx Talk? ^-^ 12:04, 27 June 2021 (UTC)


 * 1) European Union
 * 2) MOROCCO FOODEX, Food  Export Control and Coordination organization
 * 3) United States Agency for International Development An independent, reliable sources write about the association. Speedy keep --37.26.33.99 (talk) 13:08, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm still finding it very hard to accept that we should have an article about this trade organisation rather than an article about the national trade that it represents, which is well covered by the article and the sources in the article, cited in this discussion, and readily available elsewhere. How, as seems obvious to me, is this not better for Wikipedia? I hope it's not that anyone has a conflict of interest, but I don't understand why there should be such resistance otherwise. Phil Bridger (talk) 20:18, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I also want to plan the consideration and creation of the article "Pomegranate production in Azerbaijan" in accordance with the proposals discussed here. The association's article proved that what was said above is notable and would be right to keep it. --Elshad Iman (Elşad İman) (talk) 18:14, 2 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete Since this topic is about an organization, the appropriate guideline is WP:NCORP which interprets the requirements in a strict fashion. In summary, WP:NCORP requires multiple sources (at least two) of deep or significant coverage with in-depth information *on the company* and (this bit is important!) containing "Independent Content". "Independent content", in order to count towards establishing notability, must include original and independent opinion, analysis, investigation, and fact checking that are clearly attributable to a source unaffiliated to the subject. That means, nothing that relies on company information or announcements or interviews, etc. *None* of the references in the article or listed in this AfD meet the criteria. They either discuss the market of pomegranite production or are press releases or announcements. Topic fails WP:NCORP.  HighKing++ 12:51, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Note to closer I was invited to this discussion by Elshad Iman, the text of that email was "Hello, dear colleague, take part in the discussion please. [link to this discussion]". I don't recall any previous interaction with them, or with this topic area so I don't know how or why I was chosen, but it seems likely I was not the only editor emailed. I have no opinion regarding this article and have no intention of forming one. Thryduulf (talk) 23:01, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I was in the process of reporting the same. Indiscriminate notifications violate the canvassing guidelines, and the closer should take this fact into account. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 23:06, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

Non-profit organizations / public organizations Organizations are usually significant if they simultaneously meet the following criteria: They operate on a national or international scale. Information about the organization and its activities is widely reflected in unaffiliated independent authoritative sources. Additional recommendations:
 * Delete. After reading this discussion, the nom is convincing per WP:ORGDEPTH. JBchrch   talk  23:25, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
 * You misunderstood me, please delete the article and end the discussion, there are reliable and independent sources, but if there is such a contradiction, then let all information be deleted. OK --Elshad Iman (Elşad İman) (talk) 00:30, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete Per norm. Slovenichibo (talk) 06:04, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Note to closer The article covers an encyclopedic topic. It is not a question of the author of the article sending a letter to someone to participate in the discussion, the topic of the article should be the subject of discussion.

A non-profit / public organization of the regional (regional, district) level, having national or international fame, may be considered as significant.


 * The talk page of the article also touches on interesting points, and I consider the final decision fair.


 * Practice shows that the importance of a non-profit organization, including an association in the field of entrepreneurship/agriculture, can be shown: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Non-profit_organizations_by_country --37.26.33.99 (talk) 14:16, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I see no final decision at Talk:Pomegranate Producers and Exporters Association of Azerbaijan. Which decision are you talking about? All I see is an unsubstantiated claim that someone from the WMF has accepted the bribe of a jolly. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:49, 7 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Procedural comment: Yesterday, emailed me and asked me to participate in the discussion. I haven't the faintest clue why, but I suspect I'm the not only person he has approached, so I thought I should say something. —Compassionate727 (T·C) 20:09, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom.4meter4 (talk) 04:11, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Question Hello everyone who participated in the discussion, please let me know, if the text of the article is reworked and if it is rewritten, in short, if the article is dedicated solely to the association, then is it possible to save the article? Currently, the only reason for being nominated for deletion is that the text of the article covers the topic of pomegranate in a more comprehensive way than the association, and I do not see any other valid reason.--85.132.29.163 (talk) 10:55, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

The criterion for the significance of Wikipedia is the detailed coverage of any subject or topic in independent and authoritative sources.
 * Don't need to delete the article, just need to rewrite it. There are enough sources for the article. This article should be completely rewritten.

· The content and text of the page do not contradict the rules of Wikipedia. I note that the page contains a link to the reflected information, this information does not violate anyone's copyright, all information is relevant to the page title.

· There are no spelling mistakes, long monologues, unstructured materials, flames, information published in another language, hoaxes, lies and slander on the page.

· The page is not intended for vandalism.

· The page is unique and is not a copy of another page.

· the content of the page is based only on facts.

As you can see, the page cannot be deleted by any of the above criteria.--37.26.33.99 (talk) 15:35, 8 July 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.