Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pope Pius XII: Illness and death


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   speedy keep. nominator withdrawn. Issues can be addressed by editing. Mgm|(talk) 19:07, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Pope Pius XII: Illness and death

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Initial proposal for deletion removed and denoted an "objection." Reasons for initial proposal were given as: "The subject of any notable person's "illness and death" should be covered in a biographical article on the person. If there is something significant about the illness and death of a public figure-- significant enough that it merits extended discussion on its own (e.g., the Kennedy assassination), then that should be made clear. Otherwise, a separate page is unwarranted." Objector states that the article is fine because "its cited and there are many others like it." These are not sufficient conditions to warrant addition of this article. The objector also jumped straight to removing the proposal for deletion, for which reasons were given, to removing the tag without providing an adequate response. Jlg4104 (talk) 12:25, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete Even if the author has stated that there are many other articles like this, this level of detail about the last days of any historical figure is unnecessary. Pope Pius XII was over 80 years old when he passed away and there seems to be no controversy over his death from natural causes.  There are numerous, readily accessible biographies of him, any of which can be linked, that deal with this aspect of his life. Mandsford (talk) 14:21, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep This is an appropriate daughter article, created to include well-referenced information that would otherwise create undo emphasis in the main article given article size targets. I might suggest that the illness and death of a religious figure is slightly more notable than most; for example, the manner of death of a pope may implicate his cause for canonization and the following papal conclave. As the objector, I removed the template because prod should not be used for contested deletions, which this is. Savidan 21:54, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep I do not buy the "this level of detail about the last days of any historical figure is unnecessary" argument. What prompts the deletion of facts here? Lack of disk space on Wikipedia servers? Many talk pages on Wikipedia take more space than this article and if one were to refer to books in libraries, what is the use of "online" material. Hence I do not agree with the unnecessary assessment at all. No one is forcing anyone to read this link, but as a matter of historical fact, it enriches Wikipedia. In fact, given the combination of the rare photo and the detailed facts, this is the type of article that elevates Wikipedia to the level of a serious encyclopedia. I think Britannica etc. simply do not have this level of depth of information within them. But, this article should not be merged into the Pius XII article itself because that article is already pretty large. So this article should stay, i.e. let it be. Thanks. History2007 (talk) 22:44, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm more concerned about the precedent that it sets for other persons who wish to venerate their heroes by writing articles the person's illnesses. I suppose one could write an article about the final brave days of Gerald Ford or Mother Teresa or Mickey Mantle, but to what end?  Mandsford (talk) 00:22, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I would be very interested in reading about the final days of Mother Teresa. If you know someone who can write it, please suggest it. That is the strength of online, hyper-text info: someone will find it interesting and it does not get in the way by getting the physical encyclopedia too heavy to carry around. History2007 (talk) 00:28, 27 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep The main article, despite numerous other sub-articles, is extremely long, and this seems an appropriate sub-article per the policy; the nom does not address the length issue. That the nominator thinks there is something wrong with the removal of the prod suggests he may not be too familiar with policy & procedure in this area. Johnbod (talk) 23:48, 26 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep Yes, I am new. I'm the nominator but am now persuaded by the "keep" arguments above. The article in question is problematic, in my view, probably more because it seems like an overly-detailed story that suffers from an informal style. But that was already addressed. I do see the point of the one "delete" argument above, and to some extent agree with it. But ultimately, I think it's probably better to let things improve rather than go around recommending deletions without very good reason. My Wikipedia philosophy is only just developing as I read through the "About" docs, and at the moment I see no need to hold my ground. Jlg4104 (talk) 04:48, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
 * And that sounds like "nomination withdrawn". Looks like I need to move along-- I see a snowball rolling down the hill toward me! :) Mandsford (talk) 13:57, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
 * No worries, it is not a snowball moving towards you, it is just a friendly discussion about improving a page. And all participants wn or lose nothing, so no big deal. But I suggest that we declare this issue closed. Cheers History2007 (talk) 14:18, 27 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.