Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Powhatan-Toney


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. JForget 22:02, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Powhatan-Toney

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

Appears to be a rather... creative article about this guy's family, which does not meet the criteria for a "Tribe" (Initial name was "Powhatan Tribe").

Googling < "Powhatan-Toney" Tribe > turns up about 40 hits, all look to be WP mirrors, other Wikis, or social networking by article's creator. No news hits, no book hits.

I considered speedying, but wanted more eyes on it. See discussion on talk page and at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America -  Kathryn NicDhàna  ♫ ♦ ♫ 16:56, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Delete - I also searched for references for this group online and in scholarly books about the Southeastern tribes, specifically about the Powhatan Confederacy, and no independent mentions of the "Powhatan-Toney tribe" appear. -Uyvsdi (talk) 17:01, 2 October 2009 (UTC)Uyvsdi

Delete - I also searched, and found nothing like a reliable source establishing the existence of such a group. You'd think he'd at least have a website or homepage somewhere for his org., if he is online. The only thing that is anything like verifiable (so far) is the Powhatan-Toney Cemetary. If more refs do turn up, I might reconsider.. Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 17:29, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Delete - I've been involved in the scholarly study of Native American groups and languages for over 30 years and have never heard of this group or seen any reference to that name. It seems to be the editor's family history. (Taivo (talk) 17:35, 2 October 2009 (UTC))

Delete - I am a direct descendant of the Toney family of Toney, Alabama. After I showed my grandfather the article on Toney, Alabama, he disagreed with the claim that the residents of Toney were part Powhatan (that claim was added by the same person who wrote this article). While my grandfather isn't descended from the Toney family himself, he has lived in Toney for many years, and my grandmother (who is descended from the Toney family) was born and raised there. No one in my family has ever mentioned anything about Powhatan relatives, only that we have Cherokee ancestors. If there is a Powhatan-Toney tribe, then it is so obscure that even other descendents of the Toney family don't know about it. Calathan (talk) 17:50, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for clearing that up. In the meantime I searched "Harris Toney", and found this in a newspaper article that mentions him but does not seem to verify anything whatsoever having to do with native peoples. http://www.al.com/news/huntsvilletimes/index.ssf?/base/news/122164297041060.xml&coll=1Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 17:56, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks from this quarter, too. I'm thinking we need to go through the 'pedia and clean up a bunch of stuff that's been added in relation to this group of articles. - Kathryn NicDhàna  ♫ ♦ ♫ 18:32, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Related articles that have not been deleted:
 * Redstone Arsenal National Cemeteries
 * Toney, Alabama
 * Triana, Alabama


 * Delete I've not looked at the Redstone Arsenel article, but the other two articles contain legitimate content; I've chopped out the Powhatan-Toney bits from them. The phrase "Powhatan-Toney" is not a fabrication by this author (although for all I know, the story written in this article is); there's an actual cemetery in Madison County, Alabama (where both Toney and Triana are located) called the "Powhatan-Toney Cemetery"; see  for proof.  Nevertheless, there's no evidence for this story being actual truth, and even if it is, there aren't the sources to support it, so there's no good reason to let this text remain a Wikipedia article.  Nyttend (talk) 20:41, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.