Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Powow River Poets


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus.  MBisanz  talk 00:31, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Powow River Poets

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Delete:Article Contains no non-trivial source to justify notability, all internet searches provide either press releasaes or trival coverage by blogs or local publications of readings, meetings, etc. Mrathel (talk) 18:42, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Poetry-related deletion discussions.  —Mrathel (talk) 18:46, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions.  —Mrathel (talk) 18:50, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions.  —Mrathel (talk) 18:53, 20 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep - much of the news material are event announcements, but the event announcements are rather long and are usually done like that for groups that are significant. More importantly, there are a couple of non-event announcement articles such as this substantial article from the Boston Globe and this review of their anthology.  At the very least, it could be merged to Rhina Espaillat, but there are sufficient sources to support a stand-alone article. -- Whpq (talk) 17:58, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * comment perhaps you can clarify on those suggested links; the first one does not work for me and the second does not bring up a review. Event announcements are not non-trivial in nature unless they provide verifiable information about the subject from a valid source. I stared the AfD because even in the long event announcements I could not find any information that would make the subject notable. Mrathel (talk) 16:13, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Reply - the first link is a link to the Boston globe, a major newspaper. Unfortunately, between the time I reviewed the article, and now, it appears that they have taken it off their site.  It was a fairly long article where the Powow Poets were the main subject and proving some depth of coverage.  The second link is through AccessMyLibrary which requires registration.  It is a short book review of an anthology of poems from the Powow Poets. -- Whpq (talk) 17:31, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Reply I believe the article from the Globe can be found here. And this is a reference from a non-trivial source. However, it would take more than this to meet the criteria from WP:Creative. Notability must be derrived from a conglomeration of information from non-trivial sorces such as this one, and I fear that this Globe article may be the result of the fact that it was local. Is there any way you can perhaps paste some of the information from the AccessMyLibrary review on my talk page? Mrathel (talk) 17:53, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * sorry it seems that the article doesn't enjoy being linked to:)Mrathel (talk)
 * Reply - With respect to the Globe article, the reason for it may be that the group is "local", but the as a major metropolitan daily, they won't just write up any old group. There is an editorial process that reviews and determines what makes it into the paper.  That's why we use it as a reliable source to establish notability.  AS such, the localness of the group isn't really relevant.  As for the AccessMyLibrary link, it's a short article and access is free.  You just need to register.  I used my library card and accessed the text. -- Whpq (talk) 18:03, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * comment edited this page to fix the Boston Globe links. Verified them to work. Wiseleo (talk) 22:35, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ( talk→   Bwilkins / BMW   ←track ) 10:17, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Dear Mr. Knyshov, The notability of the Powow River Poets as a literary entity rests on two claims: 1) As a workshop composed of some twenty-four members, the Powow River Poets includes individuals whose poems have collected a wildly disproportionate number of the nation's significant poetry awards. To give just a few highlights, of the total of eleven Richard Wilbur Awards so far, five have been won by Powows (Krisak, Espaillat, Juster, Nicol, and Warren); of the nine New Criterion Awards, two have been won by Powows (Coyle and Warren); of the fifteen Howard Nemerov Prize winners, eight have been Powows (Juster three times, Espaillat twice, Warren, Crawford and Scaer once each); one has won the T. S. Eliot Prize (Espaillat). According to the judges of those competitions, as well as several seasoned critics and reviewers, the group comprises some of the best poets--particularly formal poets--writing in this country today. 2) Since 1994, the group has brought distinguished poets with national reputations to read for local audiences, through the Powow River Poets Reading Series, which has hosted scores of the nation's best-known poets, including Dana Gioia, X. J. Kennedy, A. E. Stallings, Tim Murphy, Richard Moore, Gail White, Robert Shaw, Lewis Turco, Diana Der-Hovanessian, David Mason, Leslie Monsour, Erika Funkhouser, and two former Laureates, Richard Wilbur and William Jay Smith. Several are also noted translators: Krisak and Juster have published book-length translations of Horace, Ovid and Petrarch; various members have published translations from French, German, Spanish, Tagalog, Portuguese and Swedish; one is translating the best-known poems by Robert Frost into Spanish. The group is well known, and highly regarded, by poets throughout the country, who perceive them as something of a poetic phenomenon. X. J. Kennedy's introduction to the group's anthology conveys that, as did the panel devoted to the achievements of the group, presented at the West Chester University Poetry Conference on June 9, 2006. Members of the group have participated in every one of the West Chester University Poetry Conferences for years, as conferees, panelists, speakers and faculty. Powows have also participated in the yearly Newburyport Literary Festival held in April, and in last year's first Massachusetts Poetry Festival, held in Lowell in October, on televised literary interviews and other events at various literary gatherings in many states. Possibly the best way to gauge the notability of the organization is to learn about some of its current active members, listed below: David Berman
 * Delete, fails WP:ORG. Stifle (talk) 10:19, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete No reliable sources prove notability.--Sloane (talk) 19:16, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment - I've found at least one substantial writeup so I don't think it is fair to say there are no sources. But it could be argued that there is insufficient sources to demonstrate notability.  However, there is an alternative to deletion and that is to merge the material to the groups founder as I mentioned above. -- Whpq (talk) 21:24, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment - e-mailed Newburyport Art Association (the group's meetings host) to request further samples of media coverage. Wiseleo (talk) 03:47, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
 * comment the problem with merging with the group's creator is that the other article's only source is a publication by the powow river poets. To say that there is insufficient coverage on the topic is, as far as I can tell from having spent almost an hour searching my university library and the internet, correct. I have no problem merging this article with the Rhina Espaillat article if notability for the author can be established. If she is indeed the "most prominent translator of the poetry of Robert Frost into Spanish" as the article suggests without giving sources, that should not be hard. Mrathel (talk) 16:10, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep and move discussion about merge to the article's talk apge.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 21:25, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment - Received reply to my inquiry from Newburyport Art Association... It's very lengthy as below (You will note that this was provided by Rhina P. Epsaillat into whose article Mrathel is proposing to merge this group :)):Wiseleo (talk) 00:19, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Bill Coyle

Robert Crawford

Rhina P. Espaillat

A. M. Juster

Len Krisak

Alfred Nicol

Stephen Scaer

Deborah Warren I hope that what I've told you is helpful. If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to contact me. Yours sincerely, Rhina P. Espaillat


 * Comment - One course of action could be to perhaps persuade Rhina to publish this information on the group's site so we can cite it accordingly? Wiseleo (talk) 00:17, 2 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.