Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Prijatelji (comics)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus.  MBisanz  talk 00:13, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Prijatelji (comics)

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No assertion of notability that I can see. I would speedy, but it's clear a lot of work has gone into this, so it should get a full dicussion. Gigs (talk) 06:20, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete Can't find RS after good faith search. There appears to be a language barrier, so if someone can make foreign RS appear, I'd reconsider. czar   &middot;   &middot;  06:06, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Serbia-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:19, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Comics and animation-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:19, 30 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep Although it is part of independent, small press/fanzine scene, it has certain public notability. Apart of hard copies, it was exhibited in official mainstream places in Belgrade including Šumatovačka cultural center and even in the most elite gallery in Belgrade's downtown, "Progres": "Podsećamo na Prvu godišnju izložbu udruženja stripskih umetnika Srbije..." ("We remind you about First annual exhibition of Association of Comics Artists of Serbia", Stripvesti, Novi Sad, August 3, 2012. You can notice Prijatelji's creator Marko Todosijević Mrvaks as one of exhibitors at the national exhibition). All in all, I would advise to keep it. (Very good small press, btw.) --Stripar (talk) 23:44, 2 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Do you have any clippings from Serbian newspapers or other authoritative places? The gallery listing and SPS blog aren't very reliable sources alone. czar   &middot;   &middot;  01:14, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I do have clippings about exhibition by numerous national and regional mainstream media (although, without listing of names). Some examples: TANJUG (national news agency), Blic (one of main daily newspapers in Serbia), B92 (one of four TV and radio stations with national frequency) with report by TANJUG, International radio Glas Srbije (state owned, broadcasting in several languages). Additionally, exhibition was repeated on Belgrade International Book Fair in October. I know that title "Prijatelji" is not mentioned in exhibition news coverage (there were some of 150 artists), but it testifies about notability of creator Todosijevic, being argumentum ex silentio. I'm aware what problems face series from small press/fanzine publishing on Wikipedia, but I remind that we have here British and American analogies which have set the precedent. Anyway, voting will resolve this. (And, yes: Stripvesti.com are not SPS, it's main portal for Western-Balkan comics). Cheers. --Stripar (talk) 17:38, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for taking the time to collect those sources. I reviewed them all and the artist is only peripherally mentioned, if at all (same for his comics). Still the articles are more short blurbs about the happening than reports of the event—so I wouldn't say that even the event passes GNG. We'll see how the !votes fall, but re: argumentum e silentio—that's the basis for all AfD GNG decisions. (If it doesn't exist, it isn't notable enough for an encyclopedic entry. Not that the content isn't important, but that Wikipedia isn't the place for it.) czar   &middot;   &middot;  22:46, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid that it was maximum at the moment regarding evidence of notability: as a member of national professional society Todosijevic exhibited (with Prijatelji strip) at the top national exhibition, as noted here "Podsećamo na Prvu godišnju izložbu udruženja stripskih umetnika Srbije...", and the exhibition had major media coverage (as evidenced in my previous post). I see your point, but I simply don't have additional evidence in this case. As you say: We'll see how the !votes fall. Sincerely, --Stripar (talk) 00:06, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jenks24 (talk) 09:08, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

 
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, KTC (talk) 00:15, 12 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment: The big issue right now is finding sources that talk about the comic in depth. The above sources only mention the artwork briefly in relation to many other artists and the thing about exhibitions is that they only truly count towards notability in and of themselves if one of two (or both) things are met. The first is that the artwork is on permanent display in several notable galleries or museums. The second is if the comics themselves were the main focal point of a notable exhibition in a notable location. Now the thing about the second point is that it means that they would be the main feature of the exhibition rather than one of several other artists being shown, which doesn't seem to be the case here. Searching for sources was a little difficult due to the language barrier, but I just can't see where it's received a lot of in-depth coverage from sources Wikipedia would consider reliable. At this point in time it doesn't pass notability guidelines. I have no problem with anyone wanting to userfy it until more sources can be found, however. I do want to note that if sources are eventually found, the article will need to be re-written in some places as it occasionally as writing that reads more from a fan's point of view than from a neutral and encyclopedic point of view.Tokyogirl79 (talk) 10:34, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
 * It needs to be rewritten, no doubt. But we are talking about notability here. Although this is small press, there is mainstream, independent and objective evidence. 1) The series was exhibited as focal point at "Mrvax i Prijatelji" exhibition in eminent Center for artistic education Šumatovačka in May 2012 (existing since 1948, part of City of Belgrade official cultural infrastructure, as you can see by symbols of the city and the municipality right top), 2) series has been covered on mainstream media (May 2012, Todosijevic interview on RTV "Studio B", City of Belgrade owned television network), 3) previous presentations (2010) have been regionally covered as we can see at SEE Cult - South-East European Culture Portal. For independent, small press project, and concerning previously posted links, I think it could be more than enough. As side-note, I don't have language barrier and I'm dealing with Yugoslav comics for last quarter of century, but perhaps it'll be good to have here some other native speaker as a second opinion to my conclusions. Cheers. --Stripar (talk) 12:26, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.