Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Primary NFL television stations


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Liz Read! Talk! 05:27, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Primary NFL television stations

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

This is not an article: it's a series of lists too extensive/crufty for the encyclopedia (such lists as former TV networks for NFL teams pre-1960, NFL games that were aired on local stations), etc. I corrected a typo and added an inline reference; astonishingly, it is the only one on the page.

It is true that one television station in a given NFL home city airs more than half the games of the home city team in any given year, but with more primetime games and cross-flexing, this is not very important. More importantly, these arrangements are functions of a network affiliation, not of individual station deals. This is, to use my words from another AfD, a source-bare piece of mush that has no place on the encyclopedia. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 04:31, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions.  Sammi Brie  (she/her • t • c) 04:31, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions.  Sammi Brie  (she/her • t • c) 04:31, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions.  Sammi Brie  (she/her • t • c) 04:31, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions.  Sammi Brie  (she/her • t • c) 04:31, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions.  Sammi Brie  (she/her • t • c) 04:32, 20 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Support unconditionally. The fact that only one citation exists says a lot. Moreover, what is a "primary NFL television station" when the television contracts are made at the league level? Nathan Obral • he/him • t  •  c  • 05:21, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete If anything, the article should be refocused solely on stations which are a team's official pre-season and other programming partner rather than...a list of stations which carry NFL games, which outside CW/MyNet stations lucky enough to get the MNF matchups, all Big Four network affiliates do these days. And we feature each team's main broadcast partners already in each team's article, so this is just so much over-detail already covered by each network's individual NFL coverage article.  Nate  • ( chatter ) 06:53, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete I have to agree, it doesn't look like this article content is what we're looking for in a Wikipedia article or list. It's not really covered well as a topic in third party articles.  I don't disagree that it's a useful reference for enthusiastic viewers of NFL games, but that sorta feels more like original research. Topic might be better suited for an online sports almanac or TV directory.  I suggest enthusiastic editors try another wiki.--Paul McDonald (talk) 16:23, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Quite frankly, this is an article since it goes a bit into the history of how the National Football League has been televised. Keep in mind that this article isn't at all remotely about prime time games that air on NBC's Sunday Night Football. You can't just subjectively say that what station in what market primarily airs a specific teams games isn't important. It's very apples and oranges to compare prime time programming, where the game is all but guaranteed to get screened to the entire nation to what will likely be aired on only two markets. Also how isn't this an article? How is a list of Primary NFL stations any different than a local over-the-air markets that say, air Major League Baseball games (e.g. KTLA 5, for many years, aired Los Angeles Dodgers games) for example. That's roughly the equivalent to that. You're basically appear to saying that there's no need to tell people about how NFL games are distributed. Simply put, not every single game is going to be made available (unless of course, you have the Sunday Ticket package) to the general public. It's also very, very presumptuous to flat out say that an article like this isn't needed at all since it's simply in each team's own article already. BornonJune8 (talk) 06:11, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * @BornonJune8 The fundamental difference between the NFL and the other leagues is that the NFL controls all the regular-season television inventory. If you air an NFL regular-season game, that's because your network has a contract with the league to show NFL games. If you air an MLB, NBA, or NHL regular-season game (outside of the national rights packages associated with each league), it's because you have a contract with the team. An almanac, 506 Forums, etc. would be a good place for the lists which have some value to someone, but not here. Sammi Brie  (she/her • t • c) 07:10, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Again, you come across quite subjective when you say that an almanac, 506 Forums, etc. would be a good place for the list which has some value to someone, but not here. So says the person who initially nominated said lists for deletion to begin with. Bare in mind that there's extensive information about what is in the Primary NFL television stations article virtually all of the individual articles for the local stations. And while it may be true that unlike with other pro sports leagues, the NFL controls all the regular season TV inventory, what exactly does that have to do with which exact station (i.e. the "home market") principally airs one particular franchise's games? I must reiterate that a local viewer usually week in and week not, is only allowed (unless otherwise) to see the teams from their home market. Yeah, the NFL may control the TV inventory but they're still divvied up region to region.  BornonJune8 (talk) 07:25, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * There's a lot of things that are of value to people that don't belong on Wikipedia. There is a policy that outlines What Wikipedia is not, and I believe specifically 2.6 Wikipedia is not a directory applies here.  I must admit I'm not sure what it means to "come across quite subjective" but that seems to be a personal attack, albiet a lighter one.  However, a weak personal attack is still wrong.  Please limit your comments to the matter at hand rather than the person making them.--Paul McDonald (talk) 00:45, 22 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete per nominator and 's well reasoned rationale. « Gonzo fan2007  (talk)  @ 16:15, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete references about this are extremely lacking and it's not very clear what a "primary NFL television station" is. Maybe the article could be refocused solely on stations which are a team's official pre-season and other programming partner per Mrschimpf, but I feel like whoever wants to undertake that endeavor should do so by creating a new article. As I don't think the current one could be adapted to a new direction well enough to justify keeping it and just changing what it's about. More so because there's a good chance that whatever comes out of the new direction likely wouldn't be notable or workable either. --Adamant1 (talk) 00:17, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
 * To clarify, a "Primary NFL television station" is in essence, the station that would more than likely be the first choice to broadcast a specific team's games in your home market. To give you a better idea, KTVU, the owned and operated Fox affiliate in the San Francisco Bay Area is the designated or de facto "home station" for the San Francisco 49ers. And when CBS previously held the NFC package prior to 1994, KPIX would've been the 49ers' "home station". In other words, if you're going to see one NFL game on Sunday, then you're local affiliate will all but be guaranteed to air the game that the team that's based in region is playing in. This article in particular, explains in detail, how the National Football League and TV networks such as Fox and CBS decide what football games you’ll see each Sunday. The article clearly uses the term "home market station" when describing Denver's Fox affiliate. Here's another article that explains how the NFL decides which games will be shown to your local market such as the Dallas Cowboys games. Each national football league team on their official websites have a section concentrating on their TV network. For example, here's the one for the Las Vegas Raiders. BornonJune8 (talk) 9:32. 24 January 2022 (UTC)
 * This article also clearly states in the second bullet-pointed paragraph that WLUK-TV in Green Bay, Wisconsin is the home market station for the Green Bay Packers. And here's an article from 1999 that goes into the complications over how a hypothetical move of the New England Patriots to Hartford, Connecticut would directly impact to local broadcasting of the New York Giants and Jets games. This article also goes into the mapped process of how Fox and CBS assign different games to different markets based on both national and regional interests. BornonJune8 (talk) 9:55. 24 January 2022 (UTC)
 * did you mean to ping me, or someone else? Not sure how this comment responds to anything I said. « Gonzo fan2007  (talk)  @ 15:53, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I suspect a ping to @Adamant1 was intended. Sammi Brie  (she/her • t • c) 19:29, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the details. I figured that's what it means, but the fact that you said they are "more than likely" to be the first choice to broadcast a specific team's games in your home market makes me think it's not cut and dry enough to make an article based purely on the concept a reliable source for information about it. Not big deal if the home market thing is mentioned in the individual television stations articles though. --Adamant1 (talk) 19:51, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
 * This is what the article for WLUK-TV in Green Bay, Wisconsin itself says under "As a Fox affiliate": "Because of Fox's 1994 acquisition of television rights to the NFL's National Football Conference, the switch made WLUK the unofficial "home" station of the Green Bay Packers after years on WBAY (and two years on WFRV), which became a major ratings draw (during the 1994 season, WGBA was the station of record for the Packers). Since channel 11 joined Fox, Packer football games have routinely drawn an 80% share of the viewing audience – far and away the highest-rated programs in the market, and through Fox's NFL rights deal, the station has broadcast two of the three Super Bowl games the Packers have appeared in, both victories, since 1994; Super Bowls XXXI and XLV, both by far the highest-rated programs in the Green Bay market's history." And please don't twist or take out of context what I said when I said "more than likely". What I mean is that of course, not all of the Packers games for example, are expected to solely air on Fox, but a majority of their games would air on it since Fox is the current NFC network. BornonJune8 (talk) 1:17. 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't really have anything more to say about this. Except the fact that they are "unofficial" home stations doesn't sell me on this anymore then your "more then likely" comment does. The fact that they aren't official and being added to a list like they are just comes off like OR. The whole "majority of games" thing is rather meaningless of criteria also. There's nothing particularly special or notable about a television station that airs more sports games then another one. That's just how broadcasting works. It isn't a defining characteristic of any of the television stations either. --Adamant1 (talk) 04:52, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment The point of a Fox station airing most of the games for a football team in their home market is obvious; that they're a major ratings draw and nobody's watching...say, infomercials or some random movie on WACY-TV at the same time because of the NFL's overwhelming popularity. Though it is a feature of the station for sure, the majority home station relationship isn't the same thing as an 'official team' station relationship unless they have both deals, and unlike that contract, can be moved or taken away with an affiliation or rights package change by the league or a network, as it will with Amazon grabbing Thursday Night Football next year. Listing stations in the markets of NFL teams that have ever carried an NFL game is in the end, a meaningless characteristic, because unless a station has an irrational hate for professional football (or for the Monday Night package, needs to give it to another station because of airing Dancing with the Stars or The Bachelor(ette)), they always carry those games because the network requires them to and viewers would think they're idiotic for not doing so. It's something that doesn't really need an article call-out.  Nate  • ( chatter ) 06:21, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Since I previously mentioned KTVU, this is how its Wiki article describes its involvement with the broadcast of 49ers games, for what it's worth, under "Sports programming": "KTVU has also served as the market's primary official television broadcaster of the San Francisco 49ers since 1994, when Fox assumed the contractual rights to air games from the National Football Conference (NFC). The station airs most of the team's regular-season and playoff games that do not have rights held by other broadcast networks (primarily those involving the 49ers' in-conference opponents), as well as another 49ers-related programming during the NFL season including the pre-game show 49ers Pre Game Live (on Sunday mornings), the weekly station-produced sports program KTVU Mercedes-Benz Sports Weekend (on Saturday evenings), magazine program 49ers Total Access (which follows Sports Wrap on Sunday evenings) and the 49ers Red & Gold Specials (comprising four programs focusing on the 49ers' history that air on either KTVU or KICU during the team's training camp and/or preseason).[43][44] The station aired the team's appearance in Super Bowl LIV. KTVU also airs most Las Vegas Raiders games (a holdover from when the team played in Oakland) in which the team plays host to an NFC team at Allegiant Stadium and starting in 2014, when the NFL instituted its new 'cross-flex' broadcast rules, any Raiders game involving another AFC team that is moved from KPIX to KTVU." Like I said prior, just about every single station on the Primary NFL TV station list has a summary of sorts explaining its broadcast relationship with the NFL franchise in its market. BornonJune8 (talk) 7:57, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Comparing Thursday Night Football with Fox's Sunday afternoon telecasts is at least in my personal estimation, apples and oranges, since naturally, there are more games that need to be covered all at once on Sunday afternoons when compared to a separate prime time package like the Thursday night one. Bringing up Amazon is in itself a bit of a reach if you ask me, since Amazon is a streaming service, that doesn't have affiliated stations like a linear television network such as Fox. Simply put, how can you compare a national broadcast like Thursday Night Football with a regional one? There's a lengthy breakdown in the National Football League on television article about how Sunday regional games work. That same article mind you, also has a section explaining what a "Primary market" is. Also, give me at least one example of a station that bypassed NFL games in-favor infomericals or a random movie despite their affiliated network having a contract to broadcast NFL games. With all due respect, the last time that I checked, your Fox or CBS affiliated network airs NFL games because the networks themselves have multi-billion dollar contracts with the National Football League. WJBK, the main Fox affiliate in Detroit is presumably, going to air a lot of Lions games week in and week out since the "powers that be" figure that those would logically be the games with the most inherent local interest, thus would in return, draw in the biggest ratings for said station/market. Again, you can you compare Sunday afternoon games with prime-time programming like Dancing with the Stars and The Bachelor(ette), which doesn't even air on Fox or CBS, the current NFC and AFC networks. And you also can't just say that all that a person needs to know is that CBS airs the AFC package and Fox airs the NFC package without any additional details. Isn't for instance KTVU, by default or design, the 'official team' station for the San Francisco 49ers since Fox is the NFC network and that's the station that its fanbase would immediately turn to first? And bringing up the Green Bay station WACY-TV almost in my mind, constitutes being a "slippery slope". In other words, you might as well say that how can the main Fox station in Green Bay, WLUK-TV be the "home station" for the Packers when virtually every TV station in Green Bay, Wisconsin covers the Packers in some shape or form? BornonJune8 (talk) 8:13, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment Please stop bludgening the discussion with long paragraphs. I have no plans to read these walls of completely unrelated information because at this point you're just belaboring a rationale of the article being useful, when it's just extraneous information altogether that belongs in another form off this site.  Nate  • ( chatter ) 23:28, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
 * You're pretty much in this regard, choosing the completely ignore the points that I have to make simply because you feel that I make long paragraphs. It's incredibly difficult for me to properly explain my own point in two or three sentences. Why can't you take the time to try to listen to an opposing view or rationale instead of criticizing the manner of which they need to explain themselves? You can't realistically get into a debate or personal disagreement with somebody and act like you have no plans on reading what the opposing party has to say in response. And what exactly is the "completely unrelated information" that you're referring to? I had attempted to address the best way that I could your early point about Thursday Night Football games coming to Amazon and your comments about the Green Bay television market. So I don't know exactly what you're asking for. And again, who ultimately says or determines that it's just and conclusively "extraneous information", when as I previously said, the articles for the TV stations themselves all but acknowledge the NFL association? The National Football League on television article under "Shared media markets" clearly acknowledges several of the stations in the Primary NFL TV stations article. BornonJune8 (talk) 10:26, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
 * WP:WABBITSEASON the arguments have been made and editors do not have to agree on everything. If there are further points to add, feel free--otherwise please let the closer review and make the call.  This will help to avoid falling into any personal attacks and remain WP:CIVIL.--Paul McDonald (talk) 14:34, 26 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete per nominator and all above. Spf121188 (talk) 21:10, 26 January 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.