Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Prince Michael of Sealand


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was No consensus. This is fundamentally a judgement call: do we cover this person in a standalone article, or as part of the article on the entity he's closely associated with? This discussion doesn't show clear support for either option. Whether to redirect/merge articles like this one can also be discussed on article talk pages in addition to AfD.  Hut 8.5  22:32, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

Prince Michael of Sealand

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Seven years ago, Articles for deletion/Michael Bates (Sealand) closed as redirect to Principality of Sealand. The article has been recreated under a new name, but the same concerns still apply. The subject is still only notable for his connection with the micronation, and sources do not treat the subject independently of the micronation. Per WP:BLP1E, this redirect should be restored and any new content added to Principality of Sealand. Brad v  21:43, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep. The subject has received much more press since the 2010 AFD. Michael is the subject of individual press in the BBC, V3, The Independent, and others. He is also mentioned many times on WP, because articles surrounding Sealand and its associated articles are incomplete without him (HavenCo, Sealand national football team, etc.). --Kbabej (talk) 21:48, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep. Seven years ago he wasn't then the ruler and thus he did not have the BBC coverage etc, thing do change in seven years and he passes the GNG now. GuzzyG (talk) 23:02, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Redirect. No independent notability. Notability is derived solely from the Sealand claims. DrKay (talk) 23:09, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
 * That's like saying Ray Kroc only has notability derived from him running McDonalds, or any other similar businessperson. Or the fact that any one is only notable because they had one career. GuzzyG (talk) 09:39, 31 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Redirect to the Principality. The pirncipality is marginally notable, Bates is not.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:02, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:14, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:14, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:14, 4 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep it's an WP:OTHERSTUFF argument, but he's more notable than Travis McHenry in basically every way. Possibly rename back to Michael Bates, though. power~enwiki ( π,  ν ) 20:24, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep: meets the GNG in my opinion as demonstrated by the sources given above by Kbabej. More importantly, I don't think the nomination's use of WP:BLP1E as a reason for deletion is in the spirit of the policy. The coverage of Mr Bates is in reference to his leadership of the purported nation of Sealand—this is not an "event" as required by the BLP1E policy, but a continuing activity. An event is inherently time-limited (the canonical examples we usually refer to in the context of this policy are crime victims or perpetrators)—Mr Bates's claim to notability is for a rather open-ended reason: he will presumably continue to claim to be leader—or indeed Prince—of Sealand until his death (or abdication/succession?). Notable or not, BLP1E is quite clearly inapplicable in this case. —Tom Morris (talk) 21:39, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep eccentricity does not ovrecome GNG Chetsford (talk) 22:16, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Redirect per JPL and DrKay. Not notable and doesn't merit a standalone article. -- ψλ  ● ✉ ✓ 17:26, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Redirect as per reasons stated by DrKay. Cheers, 1292simon (talk) 22:39, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep For reasons mentioned by GuzzyG, only being notable for one achievement does not make somebody not noteworthy. It is more what that achievement is rather than how many. The King of Spain is only notable for being the King as is the Queen of England.. yet a child can win 10 medals in their sports day at school... which is more noteworthy? SamanthaFinmore (talk) 01:12, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
 * The school sports day is an WP:OTHERSTUFF argument. Spanish/English monarchs are quite different to a guy who inherited a micro-nation that is not recognised by other countries. I find the history of Sealand very interesting, but what we've seen of Michael's - and Joan's - involvement in it does not make them independently notable. 1292simon (talk) 03:17, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ansh 666 03:23, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep. Per the arguments made by Tom Morris and Kbabej above. The subject has received independent coverage from reputable sources. Eloquai (talk) 15:29, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment It's debatable whether separate articles on him and Sealand are necessary, but I hope most people would agree that if found notable it should be moved back to the old title Michael Bates (Sealand) rather than this joke title. --Colapeninsula (talk) 17:40, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Merge to Principality of Sealand. Take out the quotes and the history of Sealand and there's not much of encyclopedic value left - it can be covered adequately in the article on the micronation. --Michig (talk) 09:50, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Redirect or merge as above. Everything relates to the silly micronation, not the person outside this pursuit.  Sandstein   21:29, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep. Regardless of the silliness of Sealand, Michael Bates has received enough coverage to pass GNG. The page should be renamed though. Patar knight - chat/contributions 04:03, 15 January 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.