Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Prince Rafael of Orléans-Braganza


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Some people felt that the sources added during the AfD were sufficient, but there's no clear agreement on that. -- RoySmith (talk) 19:17, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

Prince Rafael of Orléans-Braganza

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He's the prince in the line of succession of a throne that does not exist anymore since 1889. The article about him was deleted from Wikipedia in Portuguese. The only source is about the death of his brother, not him. Anyway, in Brazil the former Imperial Family is not that popular, and it usually barely receive some coverage from independent reliable secondary sources. That's why current members of the family are usually deleted from Wikipedia in Portuguese: because they are actually not notable. Bolhones (talk) 20:17, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Brazil-related deletion discussions. Bolhones (talk) 20:17, 22 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Oppose He is the last remaining, acknowledged male dynast of the younger generation remaining in the House of Orleans-Braganza, and as such the recognized heir-eventual of the claim to the abolished monarchy of Brazil. While his family was exiled by coup d'état in 1889, a referendum on restoration of the monarchy gained sufficient political momentum to be placed on the national ballot as recently as 1993, drawing 12 million votes. It was widely acknowledged that Rafael's family were the chief representatives of the royalist cause, a branch of which was expected to be nominated for re-enthronement if the referendum had passed. Unlike other political figures, the monarchist movement is less driven by individual role than by the dynastic claim to which Rafael is heir. That political movement was well covered in English media, in a less charged and partisan way than in much of the foreign press at the time. The millions of votes cast for restoration of a dynasty whose last monarch, Pedro II, is still widely revered for his model constitutionalism and his dynasty's unpopular but principled opposition to Brazilian slavery, is not so distantly in the past as to merit being forgotten or ignored, whatever Portuguese Wikipedia's handling of it may be. FactStraight (talk) 14:58, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete. Disputed title to an abolished throne is not inherently notable. No secondary sources showing otherwise. T0mpr1c3 (talk) 06:40, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 12:37, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep. He appears to pass WP:GNG. I added some references. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 20:11, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep New Sources are reliable. Emily Khine (talk) 23:18, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete claimants to deefunct thrones are not notable for such, and there is no other suggetion that the subject here is notable for any action on his part.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:08, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I would not write off a person simply because they are heir to a "defunct throne". Wikipedia has dozens of articles on heirs to defunct thrones, particularly regarding German and French royal persons. 08:16, 1 August 2018 (UTC)Emily Khine (talk)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep after improvement and additions of new sources by Eastmain and other contributors. --1l2l3k (talk) 20:33, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment we generally do keep articles on people in the direct line of succession to being the pretender to "prominent" monarchies. That said, references like  are almost worse than having no references at all. power~enwiki ( π,  ν ) 23:14, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, TonyBallioni (talk) 01:50, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment The FAZ reference is the only good secondary source, and multiple such sources are generally required to show notability. I'm not convinced there is enough evidence at the moment, although something may exist out there in the Portuguese language. T0mpr1c3 (talk) 19:56, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Weak keep after improvements and sourcing improvements. Subject appears to meet WP:GNG. cymru.lass (talk • contribs) 19:15, 14 August 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.