Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Princeton University Department of History


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Princeton University. Seddon talk 21:44, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

Princeton University Department of History

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Lack of requisite independent coverage to warrant an independent article. Filetime (talk) 00:36, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete departments are rarely notable. Coverage can be provided in an article on the college (sub-unit of the university) it is part of. We do not need separate coverage of it.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:26, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep. Reasonably-sourced and well-written article on the preeminent history department in the United States. It has multiple MacArthur Fellowship recipients and notable professors and alumni. Deletion would make Wikipedia a lesser encyclopedia. Cbl62 (talk) 01:46, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 03:00, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New Jersey-related deletion discussions. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 03:00, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 03:00, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Education-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 11:42, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Redirect to Princeton University -- Bad precedent -- Princeton is a very prestigious university, and this may well apply also to its history department. The problem is that we cannot have an article on every university department.  If we allow this one, we will find it very difficult to resist having an article on every department in every university in every country.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:43, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗  plicit  13:38, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Fear that an article on the No. 1 ranked history department could be used a precedent for allowing articles on lesser departments doesn't hold weight to me. All history departments are not created equal, and with its impressive number of MacArthur fellowships and prominent alumni, Princeton's is clearly notable. Cbl62 (talk) 21:45, 28 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep. I've been working on the Princeton University collection of articles for a bit, with my work mainly on the main university page (I've added around 100,000 bytes to the page). I'd urge against redirecting to the main page, as that would result in having to cover other departments in a similar fashion. The page is also already quite long and adding this page -- and I'm assuming additional departmental pages -- would further lengthen and clutter the page. Besides that point, Princeton's history department is typically ranked as the top program in the US. The page is well-written, unlike other departmental pages, and has established prominence with the amount of MacArthur Fellows, Pulitzer Prizes, and notable alumni. This page does also have a NYT article supporting it, and I could cite Leitch's 1978 "A Princeton Companion" to expand a bit more on the page; there's most likely other RS for the page, considering its the top in the country. I fail to see why the page should be deleted. PoliticsIsExciting (talk) 16:34, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete Actually, upon further review and (while brief) attempt at searching for reliable sources, I'd say its fair to delete the article, as besides the awards and notable alumni, there isn't much independent mention of it. The New York Times Magazine article appears to be the only true, independent mention covering it as a whole. While I see some people arguing for a redirect, there is little reason to unless the main pageone which I've worked extensively on is to include information about every department. As Wikipedia isn't a directory for every single department, deleting should suffice; also, while the history department is high ranking, so are many other Princeton departments, which I've also come to realize shouldn't be a reason to keep it as a separate page. Other departmental articles that do not meet the qualifications should follow a similar route. PoliticsIsExciting (talk) 03:43, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete as failing WP:GNG and per WP:NINHERITED (awards won by alumni do not make the department notable), see also my own comment at Articles for deletion/Princeton University Department of Chemistry. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 22:55, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – bradv 🍁  00:05, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Redirect - to Princeton University. Any interested party can add any significant facts regarding this department there, but merging should not be a prerequisite of this close. Not enough in-depth coverage from independent, reliable sources to meet WP:GNG.
 * Comment I'm going to hold off on !voting for now, but I would strongly urge and other keep !voters to bolster the sourcing in pursuit of a WP:HEY outcome. On the one hand, we have a profile of the department in The New York Times Magazine, which is an exceptionally strong source in terms of GNG qualification, but on the other hand, it's only one source, and we need at least two. I want to know how much coverage A Princeton Companion has of the department, and given that that work was written by someone deeply associated with the university and published by the Princeton University Press, others may want more clearly independent sources.
 * I am very unpersuaded by the arguments around notable alumni, which have no basis in policy. That's not how we determine notability any more than subscriber count is for YouTubers. The relevant guideline here is WP:NORG, and if we find enough sourcing to keep under that, the only precedent we'll be setting here is that we follow our guidelines. &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 19:18, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * In that case, I'll give a solid attempt at bolstering the sourcing and updating information for the article. You are correct that Leitch's work does have relation to the universityand is why a page shouldn't entirely be referenced by itso I'll try to use it to only fill in the more precise details. As for the notable alumni, I was simply trying to provide some credence towards the history department being notable, among it also being the number one ranked department, typically; granted, I do see now that that statistic by it itself doesn't validate its notability. Like I said, though, I'll give a solid attempt at providing additional reliable sources per Wikipedia policies in order to save the article. PoliticsIsExciting (talk) 03:18, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
 * See comment I made above. PoliticsIsExciting (talk) 03:43, 8 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete. Nothing in the main article to serve as the subject of a redirect: better to delete. Erase the primary and unreliable sources from this article and what's left? czar  02:24, 12 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Princeton University.4meter4 (talk) 23:45, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge: A lot of the inflated references are duplicates of the NYTimes article, which is a reliable source. The references from Princeton cannot be used to establish notability. More sources are needed independent of the subject; I suggest merging this with the primary Princeton articlespace, or another articlespace about Princeton. Multi7001 (talk) 03:13, 14 September 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.