Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Progressive Judaism (Israel)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. Black Kite (talk) 10:50, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Progressive Judaism (Israel)

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

This article describes merely the history of Reform Judaism in Israel, a topic which can be easily added to the Israel Movement for Reform and Progressive Judaism. There is no distinct philosophy or theology (or even "Rite", which is anyhow quite an irrelevant concept in "denominational" Jewish matters; rites are practices within Orthodoxy etc., and can be easily modified) behind this term, it is merely a WUPJ affiliate. In Hebrew Wikipedia, we have no separate article for it, and just cite the Israeli Movement as the local branch of Reform/Liberal Judaism, which it is. I've noticed there's a horrible mess concerning that field round here. The subject is treated as if every local affiliate is a distinct Protestant church – it is not, and the differences between Orthodox/Reform etc. are grounded in theoretical approaches dating back to 19th century Germany. In addition, of course, there are no citations, and I couldn't find any source treating the subject as a distinct religious group and not merely a branch. I would have suggested a merge with the Israel Movement for Reform and Progressive Judaism, but I find it superfluous. A deletion would be best. מהמברטה (talk) 08:26, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Articles for deletion/Log/2014 June 30.  — cyberbot I  Notify Online 08:47, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Israel-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 13:39, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 13:39, 30 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, j⚛e deckertalk 01:56, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

 
 * Merge back into Reform Judaism, which is where this originated. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 15:53, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica1000 03:32, 16 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete Progressive Judaism is an umbrella term for two denominations that have their own well-developed articles, and has little notability in its own right. Debresser (talk) 13:59, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Please see for an idea which may apply here too.  -- RoySmith (talk) 14:22, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you, RoySmith. In this matter, the problem of having two "denominations" as in Britain does not face us. Therefore, it's unnecessary here. The "Progressive Judaism" of Israel and its "congregational arm" are indistinguishable, they're one and the same.AddMore (talk) 15:24, 27 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep because the Israeli version of Progressive Judaism is unique. There were serious discussions explaining this years ago, see:
 * 1) Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Progressive Judaism/Archive 1
 * 2) Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Progressive Judaism/Assessment and more like this.
 * 3) It also seems that many of the votes in opposition to this topic are just expressions of WP:IJUSTDONTLIKEIT while not really researching what this topic is about and what is going on here in more depth. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 06:00, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I read those discussions before I began my current rampage. I don't argue that the Israeli movement deserves its own article, and it already exists. What I'm disputing is the need for a separate article for what it believes. It's belief system is based on something developed in 1830's Germany, via the influences of American and British thinkers. The people who wrote these articles stressed congregational matters, not religious ones. I doubt, from reading their comments, that they understood what separates Reform/Liberal from Conservative from Orthodox, not as "denominational" levels but in theology, philosophy, etc. There is such a thing as "Reform/Liberal Judaism", which is quite a definitive belief system. There is no such thing as a unique "Progressive Judaism" in Israel, which has any serious unique ideas of its own. German Liberal Rabbis arrived in the 1930s (that should be in the history section of the IMPJ) and all that, but they didn't create a new religious worldview. Abraham Geiger, his associates and their followers (Kaufmann Kohler in the U.S., Claude Montefiore in UK, both "Geigerists") did.AddMore (talk) 08:38, 28 July 2014 (UTC)


 * COMMENT: aka  it is unfathomable how you can admit to your "current rampage" as defining what you are trying to do here with this AfD and expect to be taken seriously. In addition to that you admit that in the middle of this complex AfD you changed your user name from "User " to "User " is also problematic because it creates confusion, or worse (just how many user names do you have and have you changed to?) and should be noted by the closing admin as such. Kindly stop your self-admitted "rampaging" and withdraw your nomination in order to regain a semblance of credibility on what is after all a very sensitive and even controversial topic. That you nominated two such articles that were originally worked out years ago after months of dialogue and co-editing, by editors who have long left WP and are not in a position to defend themselves, also does not help. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 07:22, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep per . WP:GNG exists to establish reliable sources to pull content for articles from, that is clearly done here. ♥ Solarra ♥ ♪ 話 ♪   ߷  ♀ 投稿 ♀  21:32, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.