Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Project 18


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Draftify‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__ with a very strong suggestion that this goes through AfC before returning given protracted sourcing issues. Star  Mississippi  02:13, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Project 18

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Pure speculation by military fans in India, sourced only to two definitely not RS fansites (defenceview.in and theigmp.org, neither of which provides a source for what they write, or even the name of the author) and an official PDF that only says that India at some time in the future would like to build 5-10 new destroyers, but with no other details. So everything in the article is just pure speculation, just like previous attempts to create an article about future "super duper best in the world ever" destroyers for the Indian Navy (see Articles for deletion/Project 18-class destroyer...). When and if India comes up with a new destroyer, and official information from reliable sources becomes available, it could be worthy of an article, but as it is it's just military fancruft. Drachentöter001 (talk) 11:26, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Military and India. Drachentöter001 (talk) 11:26, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Draft seems to be the best choice. It's almost a thing, but not quite yet. Oaktree b (talk) 14:00, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Absent solid sources ( please stop adding forum threads as references; user-generated content is not helpful). I'd be amenable to drafitying per Oaktree above, but in any case I can't really see a way for this to stay in article space based on the identified sources. -Ljleppan (talk) 07:36, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Let me make one thing clear first, unlike Developed Nations in the West, Critical Military R&D in India is still handled by Government Organisations (DRDO) & DPSUs (BEL, HAL, BDL). And since India is a Developing Nation, Public Welfare, Healthcare & Infrastructure development comes first & foremost in the priority of the government. PR for Defence R&D of a product that will be developed 5-10 years down the line comes last. The current ISRO Chairman confirmed the same in a recent YouTube interview with Gareeb Scientist :
 * https :// youtu . be/SO06qo6UyBY
 * As such, we have no option but to depend heavily on insider scoops. Many reputed websites like Livefist, Alpha Defence & IDRW (Except for the Opinion Articles written by Guest Writers) have reliable links inside these organisations & provide trustworthy information on these topics. I have even seen DRDO mentioning such articles in many of their documents. One such document referers to the NGD :
 * https :// www .google . com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https :// www .drdo . gov . in/sites/default/files/drdo-news-documents/NPC21July2022 . pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiJyJyahZ2AAxV4T2wGHTcQCzY4FBAWegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw2_IqG9Kilu-ROdLvVPtUb7
 * If I am correct, this Wikipedia page was created only after the official handle of the Indian Navy released a clipping in Twitter on their Next-gen Combat Management System. That video featured warships so large that they can't be anything but the initial (yet official) renders of the NGD :
 * https://twitter.com/IndiannavyMedia/status/1580814200347426817?s=20
 * All the recent articles & videos you'll come accross in the internet on the P-18 NGD are centred around analysing this very video released by the Indian Navy :
 * 1) https :// youtu . be/mOEx16qqtM8
 * 2) https :// youtu . be/eLhjtqjfGvE
 * 3)https :// youtu . be/YMXxkaOg0dI
 * Please remove the spaces I placed in th links since Wikipedia for some weird reasons won't let me post them. I will rest my case here, peace. Cdr. Erwin Smith (talk) 11:12, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The video you linked to, and that the entire article obviously is based on, is about a future "Combat Management System" showing images of generic modern destroyers, not about a next generation Project 18-destroyer for the Indian Navy, making everything in the article pure speculation. Which is expressly forbidden by Wikipedia's rules (see WP:V, WP:RS, WP:SYNTH and WP:OR), which are the same for everyone, and not different sets of rules for "Developed Western Nations" and "Developing Nations". If there are no reliable sources there should be no article. Period. Drachentöter001 (talk) 19:19, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Like I said, we have our own set of reliable sources and we are happy with them. Multiple RFIs have been floated (127mm Naval Gun) & Critical Components made (LRMFR, HSTDV, AD-1, AD-2), like pieces of a puzzle coming together.
 * But if Wikipedia is run by it's own sets of rules and regulations, and the word 'Reliable' is defined differently, any article that violates them must be put to the Trash Bin.
 * In a few years, official data on this project will come and someone will have to create the exact same page from scratch. I don't really care about it that since I won't be editing on this platform anymore for multiple of it's inherent issues (some of which aren't related to this).
 * But still it would've been better if, instead of deleting it outright, all the sources added in this page were deleted and "This Page Contains Unverified Information" tag was added on top.
 * But I guess that that can't be done according to the rules, so delete it without any further delay. If Wikipedia can't accept it, we have no problems whatsoever. Both NGF & NGD will still happen anyway. Cheers ! Cdr. Erwin Smith (talk) 21:07, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:02, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete, weak Draft. At present it has almost zero properly referenced content, with which it would be reduced to a single sentence, which could be based on this] and this. All the rest is speculation and synthesis, failing both WP:CRYSTAL and WP:SYNTH. Much is predicated on an unsupported assumption that the ship shape, used to illustrate something else in an Indian Navy video, must be Project 18. Proper maintenance of Future of the Indian Navy will indicate when an article can emerge, and what its content can be. Davidships (talk) 15:56, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
 * On a second thought, I agree.
 * As you rightly deduced, this page should be deleted as soon as possible. Cdr. Erwin Smith (talk) 18:21, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * https://news.usni.org/2022/07/20/indian-navy-expanding-to-meet-china-threat-better-team-with-allies
 * A new next-generation destroyer, sometimes dubbed Project 18, is expected to be much larger and provide a further jump in technology by employing directed energy weapons, high-power sensors, longer-range cruise missiles and hypersonic missiles. Conceptual studies are still underway, but there will be more Indian-built content in the newer classes than in prior ones. Mifiin (talk) 06:45, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
 * It won't change anything, but since someone relisted it, I am providing another link for the generosity.
 * The Indian Navy has allotted adequate funds in the R&D for the NGD, so that it has the latest sensors & can match the weapon density of the PLAN Type-55.
 * https://delhidefencereview.com/2023/02/25/indian-navy-has-been-allotted-adequate-funds-for-indigenous-rd-and-modernization-vice-chief-of-naval-staff/ Cdr. Erwin Smith (talk) 14:05, 31 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.