Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Prophetic rock


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Cirt (talk) 04:48, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Prophetic rock

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Nothing on Google apart from the article itself... original research  Teapot  george Talk  20:22, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete – A shame, someone spent some time putting this together. However, after reading the piece several times, putting it down, and rereading again, I’m still not sure what the entry is about.  With regards to the Term, there may be an article here.  However, in my research I could find little to no coverage on the subject. Without being able to reference and cite from third party (even secondary sources) – reliable and verifiable sources, delete is the only option.  Sorry!  ShoesssS Talk 20:50, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions.   -- • Gene93k (talk) 02:14, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Religion-related deletion discussions.   —Dan, the CowMan (talk) 05:08, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete Wow. Original research from start to finish.  It's worth a read just to see what Shoesss and I are mystified by.  From what I can figure, someone is looking at Biblical references to singing and playing music, the singing of passages of the Book of Psalms (psinging, perhaps?), and... well, if you combine that with Contemporary Christian music (or Christian Rock) then you would have what the author calls "prophetic rock".  Trouble is, there's no evidence that anyone else has discovered this yet.  A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house. Mandsford (talk) 02:21, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete Nothing salvageable there. Maybe userify it first, but looking at the author's talk page, he certainly appears to have a great deal more enthusiam that understanding of Wikipedia at this point. Let's try and be non-BITEy about it, but this can't stay. Jclemens (talk) 05:18, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete Nothing salvageable there. Maybe userify it first, but looking at the author's talk page, he certainly appears to have a great deal more enthusiam that understanding of Wikipedia at this point. Let's try and be non-BITEy about it, but this can't stay. Jclemens (talk) 05:18, 26 November 2008 (UTC)


 * hi I wanted to send a note on prophetic rock i made a few changes and was hoping this might have some of you guys reconsider it entry in wikipedia I believe this is a new form of rock music that exsits today Im working on some more Info for the direction please consider Thanks... P A W  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Praiseandworship (talk • contribs)
 * Response I guess that the main thing that you would need to work on is "sourcing". All of us were new here at one time, and we learned the rules by going through discussions like these.  I had never heard the term "original research" until I got here, but what it means is that in an encyclopedia, we have to cite to more than our own information.  This is done by looking for "verifiable sources", which means that something like a website that any skeptic can refer to.  To locate such sources, you can do an online search, like Google, and search for news accounts or books that have referred to the subject you're writing about (in this case, prophetic rock).  Then, you cite the sources and mention what they say about the subject.   As a Christian, I can say that sourcing was done in religion centuries ago.  When a pastor gives a sermon, what does he do?  He refers to the ultimate "verifiable source", doesn't he?  Even before he notes that Jesus said, "A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house," the pastor adds, "Turn in your Bibles to the Book of Mark, chapter 6," and everyone (who has brought with them their own copy of the verifiable source) turns to the appropriate page.  Moreover, when the quote is mentioned in a book, it even has its own shorthand citation like "Mark 6:4" or, for persons too lazy to spell out Mark, "Mk 6:4" (just joking).   You might do the same thing when someone asks you the question, "Where does it say that?!".  Anyway, the number one requirement is to back up what you say.  Mandsford (talk) 16:29, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete OR. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 21:31, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete: original research. JamesBurns (talk) 00:38, 28 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete and/or redirect to Prophetic worship. a fully rationalized response: Lack of any signifigant sourcing to support a genre is primary here; any Heymann may be unattainable. There is certainly precedent for this, see Articles for deletion/Horror rock, which apparently suffered from generally the same problems as this article.
 * For the sake of argument let's assume that you could go any direction with this, genre-wise. Prophetic hip-Hop / Prophetic hardcore / Prophetic progressive glam metal. Prophetic death metal could be fun. Oviously this is problematic, as each genre would need (#1 Specific Sourcing [PrX genre is typified by X band, popular in TIME/PLACE ect.] (#2 Specific bands and sourcing there too [xxx is a PrX band....]. It cannot be enough to state that band X uses some elements that are considered prophetic or are drawn from prophetic material.
 * On a related point, U2 would certainly object to being labeled in any such genre. Despite their use of Christian imagery, they generally object to being extensivily covered by Christian music related publications because they don't want to be associated with Contemporary Christian music in any form. (I can cite this statement.)
 * The Encyclopedia of Contemporary Christian Music (ISBN 1-56563-679-1, a 1000+ page reference work used extensively on Wikipedia, which covers the entire spectrum of Christian music from the Jesus Music era foreward) has 12 instances of the word "prophecy" and 37 of the word "prophetic". If I group the representations (rather liberally) by type (P references Biblical prophecy directly or is in a style associated with it / P is prophetic of the own artists later work ect. / P is other or unrelated to the above) we find the following:
 * "prophecy": (3/2/7)
 * "prophetic": (24/9/4)
 * While it is apparent that artists use prophetic material or stylings, it is still necessary to note that not one artist is listed as being in a prophetic genre of any kind. The books Glossary of terms has no listing for prophetic genres, while it does include examples of Christian bands in death metal, drum n bass, emo, techno, thrash metal, and even frat rock. Even PrX was in widespread use, it would still need sourcing. See Articles for deletion/Industrial hardcore for an example.
 * I should state here, for full disclsure, that I regularly research Christian music -- most of my Wikipedia contributions are broadly within that topic -- and have never seen the term used. However, I can also say the same about Prophetic worship. Dan, the CowMan (talk) 03:41, 29 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.