Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Putinland (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Opinions remain divided, as they were in 2009 during the last AfD, about whether this is a dictionary entry or a notable political term.  Sandstein  19:28, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

Putinland
AfDs for this article: 
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Perma-banned user Russavia previously nominated this for deletion. After that discussion was closed as no consensus, he converted it into a redirect to Vladimir Putin. I found said redirect, thought it was silly, and took it to RfD, where the creator restored it as an article, and now we find ourselves here.

I believe the arguments for deletion here remain strong, especially WP:NEO and WP:SYN. This is really just a catalog of a few sources using the term "Putinland" to refer to Putin's Russia, like a dressed-up version of a Wiktionary citations subpage. Incidentally, there is a Wiktionary entry for this term. BDD (talk) 16:38, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. BDD (talk) 16:38, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Russia-related deletion discussions. BDD (talk) 16:39, 21 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete Agreement with BDD. A redirect is fine if someone thinks that's the right route. No need for its own article. South Nashua (talk) 16:40, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep I'm seeing significant media use in the refs, but the term has largely fallen out of use today. Looks like a euphemism used in a protest that has moved elsewhere. Why does this fail WP:NEO, exactly? '''- Je rg li ng ''' PC Load Letter 18:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I think it fails NEO because it's just a catalog of uses of the term, which itself is not particularly noteworthy, no more so than any other political pejorative as far as I can see. --BDD (talk) 18:48, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
 * It seems to have a specific and agreed-upon meaning, though, and E.M.Gregory has added some prose. I think it's been used enough to count, though my personal standards for WP:NEO are pretty loose. '''- Je rg li ng ''' PC Load Letter 21:44, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Note that it has not fallen out of use. Washington post 2016 "all is not well in Putinland."   Forbes,  "Fearless Investors Should Seriously Consider These Three 'Putin-Land' Stocks} Forbes, [Fearless Investors Should Seriously Consider These Three 'Putin-Land' Stocks] 2015. Variously spelled Putin land; Putinland, and Putin-land by RS.   So while many hits  are on phrases such as "Putin's land grab"  or "Putin.  Land..."  Searches produce "without violating airspace over Putinland, ..."  World Affairs Journal, 2014 .  Politico "Gulag gets short shrift from Putinland publishers," .   Or a 2014 CNN OpEd entitled "Opinion: Turning Crimea into 'Putinland'?"  To be sure, there does not seem to be anything in the way of serious, secondary source discussion of the term per se, as per WP:NEO. But mainstream sources seem to me to be using the term with some frequency. National Geographic "the city has come to be seen as the very heart of Putinland."  in a story datelined December 2016.  New York Times 2013 headline "Pinpricks, but No Dagger in Putinland"  .  Headline writers seem to use it for the same reason that it's popular on twitter:  #Putinland; i.e., it's useful shorthand for Putin's Russia.   I do wish I could find some discussion of the term itself. E.M.Gregory (talk) 21:12, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
 * keep I decided to take one more swing at this, ran a search on NYTimes.com and hit an essay by Nina L. Khrushcheva discussing Putin-land. Turned out it is already on the page, but without what I think is the money quote.  Adding it now.  I believe that this satisfies WP:NEO, although, of course, we can hope for more to come - an may well get it, given the revived focus on Putin in the wake of the American Presidential elections.E.M.Gregory (talk) 21:24, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
 * WP:HEYMANN insofar as I have added a definition from a highly reputable source.E.M.Gregory (talk) 21:30, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the changes and additional sources, I think they justify an article. Do you think this topic would be better served if it were moved to Putinism? I'm on the fence, since I don't want to confuse a neologism with political terminology. '''- Je rg li ng ''' PC Load Letter 21:44, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes. I think a free-standing article on Putinism is an excellent idea; provided we leave a section on Putinism in place on Presidency of Vladimir Putin with a hatnote linking to the new article.  This not-very-good article can then be merged into and redirected to Putinism.  An excellent and useful enhancement .E.M.Gregory (talk) 22:23, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Alright, I've said my bit, whether or not we need a separate article is beyond my scope. I'm going to respectfully bow out at this because I've stepped on enough toes in U.S., U.K., Indian and Pakistani controversies in the last week. I'd rather not add Russia to the list! '''- Je rg li ng ''' PC Load Letter 22:39, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep per WP:NOTCENSORED. Bearian (talk) 18:31, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Bearian, can you elaborate? Do you believe I'm trying to censor anything? --BDD (talk) 21:03, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
 * No, but Putin is known for censoring dissidents. Be aware of whom you help or hurt. Bearian (talk) 18:40, 29 November 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.