Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Puzzle films


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. MER-C 12:50, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Puzzle films

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No evidence of any notability. Fails WP:GNG. Previously PRODed but PROD removed by author. Elements of WP:CRYSTAL doesn't help. A newly invented form of film making but without any evidence that others have taken any notice of it.  Velella  Velella Talk 21:17, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete fails notability DarjeelingTea (talk) 22:00, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete per nomination -- Zackmann08 (Talk to me/What I been doing) 23:25, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete per nomination. Fortdj33 (talk) 03:11, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. North America1000 05:48, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions. North America1000 05:48, 17 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Comment: It looks like there's an article on Daryush Shokof, so this might be something that could be merged into his article if there's any sourcing at all to show that he came up with the idea. Offhand the article for Shokof could use some work as well. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  06:09, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Hmmm... I'd actually argue against merging now because I do see where the phrase is used prior to 2016 in articles like this one, which was written in 2009. Then there's this IMDb list that was created in 2011. My point here is that I don't see where Shokof actually created the concept or the term, which is what this Wikipedia article is claiming. To put it bluntly, there's strong evidence to say that if Shokof is claiming to have created the concept of puzzle films this year, that he is certainly lying.
 * Now as far as a general term, I do see that Wiley published a book about the concept. The editor of that book published a similarly titled one through Taylor & Francis a few years later. It looks like there is potential merit in an article about the term, which essentially refers to complex cinema (that might be a better article title), but this article isn't that and I'd actually recommend against leaving this article's history because I see that there have been concentrated efforts on Shokof's article where people have tried to actively promote him on Wikipedia. Leaving that article history could potentially encourage them to try to promote him in another article. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  06:20, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
 * This site mentions John Hartzog, so maybe he originated the term? In any case the aforementioned site links to this article from 2001 that uses the term and refers to it in a way that gives off the impression that the term existed prior to that article's publication.
 * I also found this book through Edinburgh University Press that uses the term. It looks like it's most certainly an alternate term for complex cinema, but it looks like puzzle films is slightly more common. It's not a very prevalent term overall, but it does look like there's been some academic coverage. Again, it looks like claims that Shokof created the genre this year are false, unless he's using the term in relation to a complete separate type of film. However even if this is true, the article would still merit deletion because the genre as written in this article is non-notable. I'm searching under the general term "puzzle film" and can't find anything reliable that mentions him - and not really anything that mentions him at all, really. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)  06:28, 17 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete - this is the latest in a series of attempts by SPAs promoting Shokof (see, for example the history over at "amenic filmmaking". The fact that the term "puzzle films" shows up elsewhere does not make puzzle-films-as-supposedly-defined-by-Shokof notable. --Nat Gertler (talk) 16:44, 17 September 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.