Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/QutIM (3rd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Cutting the gordian knot, this AFD was opened to test some new sources. This has now taken place and the established editors are of one mind - that this is non-notable and the sources provided do not cut the mustard. I really see no point keeping this open with the extensive off site canvassing and this particular comment was really enough. I guess it was meant as a joke but no encyclopedic value is served by keeping this open a second longer Spartaz Humbug! 08:03, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

QutIM
AfDs for this article: 
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This is the third nomination of this article. The first result was delete as non-notable. The second I speedy deleted as a recreation of an article previously deleted at AfD. However, on my talk page, editors provided a range of additional sources. Some of these certainly do not meet RS criteria. Some are in Russian, so I can't tell. One is to HAKER, which may well be a reliable source. However, I'm not qualified to tell. I have now restored this and brought to AfD so that more eyes can see it, and hopefully reach a final community decision.

Apologies in advance for the length of this nomination! I have no particularly strong feelings either way, this is a procedural nomination really.

For your convenience, below are the sources added to my talkpage.

https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/qutim -

And some more links: http://qutim-forum.de/forum/ http://www.qutim.cz/ Nokia has done port qutIM to Symbian: http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/d0134921-0894-42a3-a1a8-f3d0fdb7a9b3/Qt_for_Symbian_qutIM_Example.html

http://qt-apps.org/index.php?xsortmode=high -

nokia.com qt-apps.org are famous secondary sources, Also some more secondary sources, but now mostly on russian: http://valentine.viviti.com/ http://habrahabr.ru/ http://mac.softpedia.com/ http://mib.pianetalinux.org/ http://itshaman.ru/ http://www.opennet.ru/ http://iblog.su/ http://hakushka.wordpress.com/ http://jenyay.net/ http://t-34.name/ http://megaobzor.com/

Also information about qutIM was published in some famous magazines like }{aker (April, August), ITFormat

XAKER is a journal with more than ten year history,

ITFormat looks to be journal with both professional and user articles.

English language: Qt-Apps (btw it's a software portal rather than forum) Freshports - FreeBSD software ports Gentoo Packages Softpedia - Software encyclopedia, Mac section Archlinux software Maemo software Macupdate - Mac software Software informer Slax packages Mops Linux packages

Ged UK  21:48, 17 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete In the above I see tons of blogs, forums, and download directories. In the conversation on Ged UK's talk page, the developer goes on at length about which libraries and open source projects he uses code from and how many package repositories the software is in. None of this is evidence of notable: remarkable, distinguished, or prominent. Miami33139 (talk) 22:11, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Software-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 01:33, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep wiki.russianfedora.ru qutIM is default messenger in Russian Fedora Remix 12, and as it was said erlier it's represented in repositorious of FreeBSD and other Linux Distributions. Notable also means 'widely known', and by the way it's hard to find any russian linux user who doesn't know qutIM. EuroElessar (talk) 05:57, 18 December 2009 (UTC) — EuroElessar (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * "hard to find any russian linux user who doesn't know qutIM", yes but we need multiple, reliable, verifiable sources to prove this. WP:THISNUMBERISHUGE  TheWeak Willed   (T * G) 02:21, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep As noted before qutIM was used as example in Nokia's Qt for Symbian Developer's Library. It was mentioned in Basyskom's presentation at aKademy 2008 as example in one of sections. As well qutIM is one of few examples of cross-platform opensource multiprotocol IM. For example, how many ICQ clients you know which support *nix systems? And which of theese are up-to-date, support other functions besides just chat and has nice gui? KPanic (talk) 09:59, 18 December 2009 (UTC) — KPanic (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. The preceding unsigned comment was added at of 5 edits, this is the only comment (UTC).
 * "how many ICQ clients you know which support *nix systems" doesn't show notability. We need multiple, reliable, verifiable sources to prove notability. WP:THISNUMBERISHUGE  TheWeak Willed   (T * G) 02:21, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * By the way what about Nokia.com and Basyskom's presentation? EuroElessar (talk) 06:45, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The presentation mention is as one bullet point in a list of Qt/KDE communications programs; one bullet point is hardly "significant coverage" as required by WP:N. The Nokia source I grant does seem to count towards notability. --Cyber cobra (talk) 07:09, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep Miami33139 you are dumb! This app really rocks! It is very popular in Russia, Germany, Czech Republic and many other countries! xtazz (talk) 11:21, 18 December 2009 (UTC) — xtazz (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * There's absolutely no need for personal abuse. If you continue, you will be blocked. Comment on the content, not the editor. Ged  UK  15:10, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
 * We get it, you like it, but we need multiple, reliable, verifiable sources to prove notability.  TheWeak Willed   (T * G) 02:21, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep Doing a small walk through all the articles in Wikipedia, dedicated to various IMs, I've found that (apart from the one regrading Pidgin) the rest: first don't have (more) RR and second by the look of them are not (more) notable then qutIM's one is, but they are not suggested for deletion. Of course, articles like Bukkake have their RR and are definitely "notable". Dear Miami33139, if people don't find it notable enough why is it translated to other languages? You definitely spit on these people's faces (including me), that are trying to contribute. For me QT-Apps is one of the most reliable sources, when looking for OS software, and for sure highest rated apps are notable. Cheers! Boyan.kiroff (talk) 12:46, 18 December 2009 (UTC) — Boyan.kiroff (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS  TheWeak Willed   (T * G) 02:21, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep Besides all, qutIM is rather popular client. When the 0.2 version was released, there were more than 70000 downloads of the program only in the release day. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.218.186.254 (talk) 13:01, 18 December 2009 (UTC)  — 195.218.186.254 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * WP:THISNUMBERISHUGE --Cyber cobra (talk) 06:53, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep Qutim in our days from day to day will be added in most of Linux and BSD distributions. I really willing see article about it in wikipedia. Hubbitus (talk) 13:12, 18 December 2009 (UTC) — Hubbitus (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Pure speculating; see WP:ATA --Cyber cobra (talk) 06:52, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep QutIM - is the most valuable and worthy pretender to be named "Linux Must Have!!!" in IM nomination. Besides that fact, that it is in UNDER CONSTRUCTIUON state it's very perspective soft. By the way, it's cross-platform and multi-protocol!!! MUST HAVE!!! KEEP!!! -Varelka 16:33, 18 December 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.191.99.79 (talk)  — 93.191.99.79 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Can you cite any sources to back up your claims? Regarding its being prospective, see WP:ATA --Cyber cobra (talk) 06:41, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep qutIM is in official xmpp clients list 94.50.32.235 (talk) 18:07, 18 December 2009 (UTC) — 94.50.32.235 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * That list is a directory. No special selection/editorial criteria beyond mere existence are applied. --Cyber cobra (talk) 06:39, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * If someone merely exists at Forbes list of billionaires this definitely means that he/she is a billionaire. If an IM merely exists at XMPP clients list under category Cross-Platform (Linux/Mac/Windows) this definitely means, that it meets the XMPP "standards, usability, reliability, or performance" requirements and is therefore WP:N, or you (being a happy Skype user) think XMPP/Jabber itself is not a WP:RS. Regards, just another WP:SPA - Boyan.kiroff (talk) 11:22, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I think you didn't read closely enough. Verbatim quote from the webpage (emphasis mine):"Note: The following software was not developed by the XMPP Standards Foundation and has not been formally tested for standards compliance, usability, reliability, or performance." --Cyber cobra (talk) 12:53, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * My fault! (offtopic) What is this offensive against almost all IMs, that's going on? Boyan.kiroff (talk) 19:24, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment added, because some of the WP:SPAs are voting because they like it, and may be canvassed offsite.  Remember to cite policy when !voting.   TheWeak Willed   (T * G) 02:44, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. Fails WP:GNG, no in-depth coverage in reliable sources. The entries in XAKEP (journal) for instance are merely the contents of the free DVD that came with that journal issue. No coverage in the journal per se. The socks here are just grasping at straws... Pcap ping  15:45, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom and protect from creation. Very shameless self-promotion by a somewhat aggressive group of developers. All "sources" that they provided are basically "reviews" in blogs. Pcap already elaborated on entry in ХАКЕР magazine, I can only support it. --GreyCat (talk) 17:12, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you really think, that megaobzor.com, qt-apps.org, nokia.com and are blogs? So give me definition of "blog". By the way, do you really think that Nokia is unknown company or that it would spend human-power for porting not-notable and unknown IM? EuroElessar (talk) 19:10, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Blog, directory, forum, non reliable website, respectively.  TheWeak Willed   (T * G) 02:21, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * "non reliable website" - I hope that's a bad joke? Nokia's site is "not a reliable"?!
 * Nokia's site is unreliable? By the way, it's not a forum, because I've given you a link not ot a thread, but to library it's part, which is filled by Nokia. If megaobzor is not reliable, is there any reliable sources at the world?


 * Use wikipedia dude ;-) Blog Boyan.kiroff (talk) 19:36, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * What self-promotion you talking about? This is notable open-source project. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.215.79.95 (talk) 22:07, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * But we need multiple, reliable, verifiable sources to prove notability.  TheWeak Willed   (T * G) 02:21, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * They're kidding, right? When "eAthena" article (which is an open source server software) redirects to article about commercial RPG with blatant advertising, that's seems to be okay. That's a double-standards. Hey, Wikipedia, please stop censorship. It's no matter how you call this, deletion of information is a censorship, actually. Not to mention some people are padding their interests by abusing the rules, At the end of day, it is we are, your users who're losing from such practices. Stop abusing rules to apply some kind of censorship.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.237.187.30 (talk) 02:06, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia isn't censored...  TheWeak Willed   (T * G) 02:21, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * By the way, reality is against your words. I'm sorry. EuroElessar (talk) 07:47, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep it is used like Psi, Gajim, Coccinella, Jabbin, Exodus, Gossip ... — Neustradamus ( ✉  ) 19:12, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * We need multiple, reliable, verifiable sources to prove that notability.  TheWeak Willed   (T * G) 02:21, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately they are also on their way to be deleted ... Boyan.kiroff (talk) 19:24, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The problem is Wikipedia want only Windows Live Messenger, AIM, ICQ and Yahoo! Messenger, it is very bad for the best open source protocol XMPP — Neustradamus ( ✉  ) 20:02, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * If you look around, Wikipedia has a great amount of open source projects listed here, that are notable.  TheWeak Willed   (T * G) 02:21, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Yep, let's censorship articles about these nasty opensource projects who interferes with someone's fat profits. But hey, Wikipedia told there is no censorship. What a double standards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.237.187.30 (talk) 02:12, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Category:Free software has tons of open source software.  TheWeak Willed   (T * G) 02:21, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * So there is too much free software and that's a good reason to apply some censorship? What a good argue. Good luck with censorship, then. And let's the formalism and bureaucracy to replace the actual knowledge. But users are coming here for knowledge. Not to fight your overgrown bureaucracy and rules which are getting abused by someone to pad their views. If you delete some useful information, that's censorship. Well, me at least tried to vote to prevent it, as you suggested. I'm not sure if this works though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.237.187.30 (talk) 02:46, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * KeepStokito (talk) 00:25, 20 December 2009 (UTC) — Stokito (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * WP:JUSTAVOTE  TheWeak Willed   (T * G) 02:23, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep Hi. About this article. I maybe don't know anything about the rules ), but, with respect, I can say only one: this is a really good software, especially for linux-systems and for ICQ-protocol. Usable, user-friendly.One of the best, I think. Like Kopete, Miranda or tkabbber Qiwichupa (talk) 01:14, 20 December 2009 (UTC) — Qiwichupa (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * You like it.  TheWeak Willed   (T * G) 02:21, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep stop this damned censorship! It's so annoying to see tons of good and useful articles being deleted here and there. Stop this sabotage, let's humankind to have a knowledge. And it should come without this sucking censorship. How dare you are to decide what is important and what is not? Something which is not important to you could be a matter of life for someone. Someone, please stop this deletion madness! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.237.187.30 (talk) 01:51, 20 December 2009 (UTC)  — 83.237.187.30 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Comment, Wikipedia isn't censored, just a vote, and you like it. I still have yet to see any policy cited in many of these keep !votes.   TheWeak Willed   (T * G) 01:57, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment Just to let you know, your actions were blogged in popular russian blog and they seems to look like abuse of certain templates and rules to apply censorship (lacks notability, etc). Have fun continuing doing so, but I think you would face a number of unhappy users soon. And at least me would take an effort to inform my friends using QutIM about this situation as well. And QutIM is not a first deletion I'm unhappy about. That's actually a censorship via juggling by the rules and templates. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.237.187.30 (talk) 03:13, 20 December 2009 (UTC) — 83.237.187.30 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Comment, is the threat of a blog post supposed to make delete !voters quake in their boots and run away crying for mercy from the AFD? Until there are some references provided to back up notability, this article will either be deleted or continue to face AFD. Stop crying censorship; if some reputable third-party sources are found the article can stay. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, and the project is not obliged in any way to keep content just to prevent accusations of "censorship". SMC (talk) 06:21, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Speedy Delete Recreation of deleted material and clearly non-notable. Forum postings and blogs are not evidence of notability. Fails WP:N on all levels. I do not envy the admin who has to clear through all the ridiculously obvious meat puppetry going on above. -- Collectonian  (talk · contribs) 03:28, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * All this "meat puppetry" just happens because this program is quite popular and so quite many people feel insulted by such action. Me, for example not anyhow related with QutIM at all. And I see no reasons why user interested in "what is this qutim?" should be denied an answer. As user I find such experience unpleasant at very least. It feels like censorship for me. So you, hardcore admins and wiki-maniacs just got too far away from us, your users. Furthermore, after looking on actions of "Miami33139" user it's obvious he is some kind of saboteur. He deletes excessive amount of articles, isn't he? Good luck in supporting activity of people like this. But I'm afraid that at the end I would be unable to read in Wikipedia anything that does not exists in ancient encyclopaedia book I own. This would be a bad day for me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.237.187.30 (talk) 04:58, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Last delete was 1.5 years ago, IM appeared also 1.5 years ago, so it's not criteria. There is no link to any forum, library.forum.nokia.com is just situated in the same domain, content is filled by Nokia themself. EuroElessar (talk) 06:45, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep I can see only speculation on Wikipedia rules in the purpose of censorship. What is "notable" actually? The ability to pay you for not deleting? No thanks, I don't need this kind of Wikipedia. Uruno-kun (talk) 05:15, 20 December 2009 (UTC) — Uruno-kun (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * Delete WP:NOTE. And I'll check to see if someone's filed a sock investigation against the 11 single purpose accounts here. -- Sk8er5000 (talk) 05:55, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep Hello everybody. I just read on habrahabr.ru that this article was marked for deletion, and as I can see this is a third attempt to do so. I don't know much about Wikipedia and how it works, but I guess it is clear now that original reason "Non-notable software" is wrong, and it is also clear that whoever initiated it, is completely unqualified to have such privileges and make such decisions. (Personal attack redacted by  Jeremy  ( v^_^v Stop... at a WHAMMY!! ) ) Thanks. Realaaa (talk) 06:03, 20 December 2009 (UTC) — Realaa (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. The preceding unsigned comment was added at two other main space edits in 2007 before returning to this AfD (UTC).


 * Delete as completely non-notable, and as other delete !votes suggested, protect it from creation. The question has to be posed - just how many SPA's can one AFD handle? SMC (talk) 06:13, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete as non-notable software, and given the history of recreation, break out the salt. -- B figura  (talk) 06:20, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * NOTE) AfD semiprotected 5 days for the massive amounts of meatpuppetry. Also redacted a statement Realaaa made above; that can be construed as a death threat. - Jeremy  ( v^_^v Stop... at a WHAMMY!! ) 06:35, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.